24 channel rackmounted mixer for HD24?? Anybody know of one?

Discussion in 'rec.audio.pro' started by Burt Jones, Aug 13, 2003.

  1. Burt Jones

    Burt Jones Guest

    I am buying an HD24 for a small mobile recording rig and I need to
    find the smallest possible rackmounted mixer that can accomodate 24
    channels so I can monitor the outputs of the recorder.

    So far I haven't been able to find anything small at all. The Speck
    Xtramix and the Mackie LM3204 are the two that I found and they both
    look to be 4 or 5U.

    Does anyone have any other suggestions for a portable 24 channel
    mixer. I'd love to find something in 2U if possible.

    Or, if there is a such thing as a 24 channel lightpipe mixer in 1U,
    that would be freaking awesome. I know the 2408 has 3 lightpipe
    inputs, but can you monitor them without having to haul a computer
    around?

    Any ideas?

    Burt Jones
    Mediastar Productions
  2. John L Rice

    John L Rice Guest

    I have two Roland M120 mixers in my rack with the Fostex D2424LV and they
    work very well for monitoring. They are 1U and 12 channels each. The stereo
    monitor in / out lets you sort of chain them together. Very clean and
    quiet.

    Here's one on Ebay right now :
    http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2550932229

    Leon Russell is selling a ton of stuff and has one forsale :
    http://www.leonrussellrecords.com/itm_synthesizer.shtml

    Best of luck!

    John L Rice
    Drummer@ImJohn.com


    "Burt Jones" <mixcubed2002@yahoo.com> wrote in message
    news:7e6ab006.0308122133.3d384449@posting.google.com...
    > I am buying an HD24 for a small mobile recording rig and I need to
    > find the smallest possible rackmounted mixer that can accomodate 24
    > channels so I can monitor the outputs of the recorder.
    >
    > So far I haven't been able to find anything small at all. The Speck
    > Xtramix and the Mackie LM3204 are the two that I found and they both
    > look to be 4 or 5U.
    >
    > Does anyone have any other suggestions for a portable 24 channel
    > mixer. I'd love to find something in 2U if possible.
    >
    > Or, if there is a such thing as a 24 channel lightpipe mixer in 1U,
    > that would be freaking awesome. I know the 2408 has 3 lightpipe
    > inputs, but can you monitor them without having to haul a computer
    > around?
    >
    > Any ideas?
    >
    > Burt Jones
    > Mediastar Productions
  3. Burt Jones wrote:
    > I am buying an HD24 for a small mobile recording rig and I need to
    > find the smallest possible rackmounted mixer that can accomodate 24
    > channels so I can monitor the outputs of the recorder.
    >
    > So far I haven't been able to find anything small at all. The Speck
    > Xtramix and the Mackie LM3204 are the two that I found and they both
    > look to be 4 or 5U.
    >
    > Does anyone have any other suggestions for a portable 24 channel
    > mixer. I'd love to find something in 2U if possible.


    You might consider the new JoeMeek 828. It has eight channels per 1U
    unit, but you can cascade them together to get your 24 channels in 3U.
    We discussed it in a thread here a few months ago:

    http://www.google.com/groups?threadm=3EC1094F.8A91DC65@cheerful.com

    I've never heard or seen one, so I can't give you a recommendation, but
    it's definitely something that I'm considering for the same purpose
    eventually.

    They were supposed to be available in May, but the website gives no
    indication that they are shipping yet, so there may be a wait.

    http://www.joemeek.com/whatsnew.html
  4. Carey Carlan

    Carey Carlan Guest

    Jim Gilliland <usemylastname@cheerful.com> wrote in
    news:vUp_a.8606$2Y6.2162464@news2.news.adelphia.net:

    > Burt Jones wrote:
    >> I am buying an HD24 for a small mobile recording rig and I need to
    >> find the smallest possible rackmounted mixer that can accomodate 24
    >> channels so I can monitor the outputs of the recorder.
    >>
    >> So far I haven't been able to find anything small at all. The Speck
    >> Xtramix and the Mackie LM3204 are the two that I found and they both
    >> look to be 4 or 5U.
    >>
    >> Does anyone have any other suggestions for a portable 24 channel
    >> mixer. I'd love to find something in 2U if possible.

    >
    > You might consider the new JoeMeek 828. It has eight channels per 1U
    > unit, but you can cascade them together to get your 24 channels in 3U.
    > We discussed it in a thread here a few months ago:
    >
    > http://www.google.com/groups?threadm=3EC1094F.8A91DC65@cheerful.com
    >
    > I've never heard or seen one, so I can't give you a recommendation, but
    > it's definitely something that I'm considering for the same purpose
    > eventually.
    >
    > They were supposed to be available in May, but the website gives no
    > indication that they are shipping yet, so there may be a wait.
    >
    > http://www.joemeek.com/whatsnew.html


    MSRP of $999 each makes that a $3,000 investment.
  5. Mike Rivers

    Mike Rivers Guest

    In article <7e6ab006.0308122133.3d384449@posting.google.com> mixcubed2002@yahoo.com writes:

    > I am buying an HD24 for a small mobile recording rig and I need to
    > find the smallest possible rackmounted mixer that can accomodate 24
    > channels so I can monitor the outputs of the recorder.
    >
    > So far I haven't been able to find anything small at all.


    There are some very good reasons why you can't find anything small
    enough. You need a minimum of two controls for each channel (level and
    pan), so even if you use rotary knobs rather than sliders, that's
    still 48 knobs. You can't space them much closer than 1 inch if
    you want to be able to tell one from another and get your fingers on a
    knob, and you want to have them not all equally spaced so you have
    some visual and tactile sense of where you are. So that's a lot of
    linear inches. Unless you want a fixed mixer (no controls) or
    screwdriver adjustments, I can't see how you'd put 24 channels worth
    of controls on a 1U mixer. Then you need connectors, though you could
    get away with three DB-25's. That's probably the least of your
    problems.

    However, what you want makes for something for which there aren't
    hundreds of thousands of potential customers, so either you won't find
    exactly what you want or you'll pay dearly for it. Three 8-channel 1
    rack space mic preamp/mixers would be a wonderful complement to a
    24-track hard disk recorder, but I think they're about $1800 each (and
    I know you're going to tell me that you don't need mic preamps).

    You could get a couple of Alesis R12 mixers which aren't that big or
    heavy (or good, but probably OK for monitoring purposes) and after
    you've made some money with them, replace them with something better
    and more compact.



    --
    I'm really Mike Rivers - (mrivers@d-and-d.com)
  6. Arny Krueger

    Arny Krueger Guest

    "Burt Jones" <mixcubed2002@yahoo.com> wrote in message
    news:7e6ab006.0308122133.3d384449@posting.google.com
    > I am buying an HD24 for a small mobile recording rig and I need to
    > find the smallest possible rackmounted mixer that can accomodate 24
    > channels so I can monitor the outputs of the recorder.


    > So far I haven't been able to find anything small at all. The Speck
    > Xtramix and the Mackie LM3204 are the two that I found and they both
    > look to be 4 or 5U.


    > Does anyone have any other suggestions for a portable 24 channel
    > mixer. I'd love to find something in 2U if possible.


    http://www.crestaudio.com/products/xrackseries/xr20.cfm comes to mind, but
    its nothing like even 5U.

    AFAIK a 24 input 2U mixer would have to have something like screwdriver
    slots for level adjustment.

    Imagine this with 3 times the knobs in the same amount of rack space:

    http://www.dangerousmusic.com/mixer.html

    Doesn't compute.
  7. On 13 Aug 2003, Mike Rivers wrote:

    > In article <7e6ab006.0308122133.3d384449@posting.google.com> mixcubed2002@yahoo.com writes:
    >
    > > I am buying an HD24 for a small mobile recording rig and I need to
    > > find the smallest possible rackmounted mixer that can accomodate 24
    > > channels so I can monitor the outputs of the recorder.
    > >
    > > So far I haven't been able to find anything small at all.

    >
    > There are some very good reasons why you can't find anything small
    > enough. You need a minimum of two controls for each channel (level and
    > pan), so even if you use rotary knobs rather than sliders, that's
    > still 48 knobs. You can't space them much closer than 1 inch if
    > you want to be able to tell one from another and get your fingers on a
    > knob, and you want to have them not all equally spaced so you have
    > some visual and tactile sense of where you are. So that's a lot of
    > linear inches. Unless you want a fixed mixer (no controls) or
    > screwdriver adjustments, I can't see how you'd put 24 channels worth
    > of controls on a 1U mixer. Then you need connectors, though you could
    > get away with three DB-25's. That's probably the least of your
    > problems.
    >
    > However, what you want makes for something for which there aren't
    > hundreds of thousands of potential customers, so either you won't find
    > exactly what you want or you'll pay dearly for it. Three 8-channel 1
    > rack space mic preamp/mixers would be a wonderful complement to a
    > 24-track hard disk recorder, but I think they're about $1800 each (and
    > I know you're going to tell me that you don't need mic preamps).


    How about something like these:

    http://www.ashly.com/lx-series.htm

    There is a sub in and out on the back that you could feed the previous one
    in the series into. This would be 3 rack spaces. The outputs of the
    recorder should be a line level.

    Doug
  8. Mike

    Mike Guest

    "Arny Krueger" <arnyk@hotpop.com> wrote in message news:<-EydnepvNdSlyqeiXTWJjg@comcast.com>...
    > "Burt Jones" <mixcubed2002@yahoo.com> wrote in message
    > news:7e6ab006.0308122133.3d384449@posting.google.com
    > > I am buying an HD24 for a small mobile recording rig and I need to
    > > find the smallest possible rackmounted mixer that can accomodate 24
    > > channels so I can monitor the outputs of the recorder.

    >
    > > So far I haven't been able to find anything small at all. The Speck
    > > Xtramix and the Mackie LM3204 are the two that I found and they both
    > > look to be 4 or 5U.

    >
    > > Does anyone have any other suggestions for a portable 24 channel
    > > mixer. I'd love to find something in 2U if possible.

    >
    > http://www.crestaudio.com/products/xrackseries/xr20.cfm comes to mind, but
    > its nothing like even 5U.
    >
    > AFAIK a 24 input 2U mixer would have to have something like screwdriver
    > slots for level adjustment.
    >
    > Imagine this with 3 times the knobs in the same amount of rack space:
    >
    > http://www.dangerousmusic.com/mixer.html
    >
    > Doesn't compute.



    Actually I think you could do this with two motu 828 MKII's. They work
    as a standalone mixer for all their inputs. They have 8 adat and 8
    analog ins on each unit. So 2 units in 2 rackspaces would do the
    trick.


    Mike http://www.mmeproductions.com
  9. John L Rice

    John L Rice Guest

    "Mike Rivers" <mrivers@d-and-d.com> wrote in message
    news:znr1060776929k@trad...
    >
    > In article <7e6ab006.0308122133.3d384449@posting.google.com>

    mixcubed2002@yahoo.com writes:
    >
    > > I am buying an HD24 for a small mobile recording rig and I need to
    > > find the smallest possible rackmounted mixer that can accomodate 24
    > > channels so I can monitor the outputs of the recorder.
    > >
    > > So far I haven't been able to find anything small at all.

    >
    > There are some very good reasons why you can't find anything small
    > enough. You need a minimum of two controls for each channel (level and
    > pan), so even if you use rotary knobs rather than sliders, that's
    > still 48 knobs. You can't space them much closer than 1 inch if
    > you want to be able to tell one from another and get your fingers on a
    > knob, and you want to have them not all equally spaced so you have
    > some visual and tactile sense of where you are. So that's a lot of
    > linear inches. Unless you want a fixed mixer (no controls) or
    > screwdriver adjustments, I can't see how you'd put 24 channels worth
    > of controls on a 1U mixer. Then you need connectors, though you could
    > get away with three DB-25's. That's probably the least of your
    > problems.
    >
    > However, what you want makes for something for which there aren't
    > hundreds of thousands of potential customers, so either you won't find
    > exactly what you want or you'll pay dearly for it. Three 8-channel 1
    > rack space mic preamp/mixers would be a wonderful complement to a
    > 24-track hard disk recorder, but I think they're about $1800 each (and
    > I know you're going to tell me that you don't need mic preamps).
    >
    > You could get a couple of Alesis R12 mixers which aren't that big or
    > heavy (or good, but probably OK for monitoring purposes) and after
    > you've made some money with them, replace them with something better
    > and more compact.
    >
    >
    >
    > --
    > I'm really Mike Rivers - (mrivers@d-and-d.com)


    I think it could be done. The 1U Roland M-120 12 channel mixer has more
    than enough knobs on the front, 56 total configured in two concentric pairs
    per channel. ( vol + pan and send 1 + send 2 ).
    http://www.imjohn.com/misc/Roland_M-120_Mixers.gif

    If you dropped the aux send functionality you could get rid of two
    concentric pairs and space the others out a hair more.

    And MOTU manages to cram 48 TRS jacks on the back of the 1U 24I/O and still
    have room left over for a firewire(audiowire), word clock and power
    connectors so there would be plenty of room for 'only' 24 input jacks and a
    few output jacks.
    http://www.motu.com/english/motuaudio/24IO/rp.html
    Or you could also get rid of the analog input jacks altogether and just use
    3 lightpipe jacks and put inexpensive but reasonable D/A converters inside.
    This would make it a lot lighter in the rack ( 24 TRS cables must weigh 5
    pounds or more ) and much simpler to hook up.

    There are also a couple ways I can think of to eliminate the pan rings to
    make more finger room. One for instance would be to make the unit mono.

    Sure, the knobs are so close together that you'd be fairly insane to try to
    mix FOH with one but for just being able to tell that nice clean signals are
    being recorded and not modulated noise, I think it would be invaluable for
    people using HD recorders in the field.

    John L Rice
    Drummer@ImJohn.com
  10. Carey Carlan wrote:
    > Jim Gilliland <usemylastname@cheerful.com> wrote:
    >
    >>Burt Jones wrote:
    >>
    >>>I am buying an HD24 for a small mobile recording rig and I need to
    >>>find the smallest possible rackmounted mixer that can accomodate 24
    >>>channels so I can monitor the outputs of the recorder.
    >>>

    >>You might consider the new JoeMeek 828. It has eight channels per 1U
    >>unit, but you can cascade them together to get your 24 channels in 3U.

    >
    > MSRP of $999 each makes that a $3,000 investment.


    True, but he didn't mention a budget number. I paid $3000 for my Spirit
    328 a few years ago, and I only _wish_ it had 24 mic pres.
  11. I use a Roland M-240R for my Radar24 remote monitoring: 4RU. Bought it
    for something like $200.00 on ebay. It even has aux sends and stuff so
    you can feed headphones if you need to.

    In article <7e6ab006.0308122133.3d384449@posting.google.com>, Burt
    Jones <mixcubed2002@yahoo.com> wrote:

    > I am buying an HD24 for a small mobile recording rig and I need to
    > find the smallest possible rackmounted mixer that can accomodate 24
    > channels so I can monitor the outputs of the recorder.
    >
    > So far I haven't been able to find anything small at all. The Speck
    > Xtramix and the Mackie LM3204 are the two that I found and they both
    > look to be 4 or 5U.
    >
    > Does anyone have any other suggestions for a portable 24 channel
    > mixer. I'd love to find something in 2U if possible.
    >
    > Or, if there is a such thing as a 24 channel lightpipe mixer in 1U,
    > that would be freaking awesome. I know the 2408 has 3 lightpipe
    > inputs, but can you monitor them without having to haul a computer
    > around?
    >
    > Any ideas?
    >
    > Burt Jones
    > Mediastar Productions


    --
    John Etnier
    Studio Dual
    http://www.studiodual.com
  12. Mike Rivers

    Mike Rivers Guest

    In article <934b3e2c.0308131618.15fb5ae6@posting.google.com> mmeprod@mmeproductions.com writes:

    > Actually I think you could do this with two motu 828 MKII's. They work
    > as a standalone mixer for all their inputs. They have 8 adat and 8
    > analog ins on each unit. So 2 units in 2 rackspaces would do the
    > trick.


    Where are the knobs?


    --
    I'm really Mike Rivers - (mrivers@d-and-d.com)
  13. Mike

    Mike Guest

    mrivers@d-and-d.com (Mike Rivers) wrote in message news:<znr1060826436k@trad>...
    > In article <934b3e2c.0308131618.15fb5ae6@posting.google.com> mmeprod@mmeproductions.com writes:
    >
    > > Actually I think you could do this with two motu 828 MKII's. They work
    > > as a standalone mixer for all their inputs. They have 8 adat and 8
    > > analog ins on each unit. So 2 units in 2 rackspaces would do the
    > > trick.

    >
    > Where are the knobs?


    It's got virtual knobs:)

    Mike http://www.mmeproductions.com
  14. Well heck! Since no one has mentioned it thus far I guess I will. Behringer has a unit out called
    Euro rack Pro RX1602. 1 RU. It says 16 balanced inputs. For $99.00 from Musicians friend. I'm
    not promoting behringer and I know this group gets pretty snobby about Behringer, but that won't
    prevent it from being a good and useful unit. 32 channels for $200 is a good deal if it seems like
    it will work OK. I suspect you'll need to go to the Behringer site for more info. Patric

    Mike wrote:

    > mrivers@d-and-d.com (Mike Rivers) wrote in message news:<znr1060826436k@trad>...
    > > In article <934b3e2c.0308131618.15fb5ae6@posting.google.com> mmeprod@mmeproductions.com writes:
    > >
    > > > Actually I think you could do this with two motu 828 MKII's. They work
    > > > as a standalone mixer for all their inputs. They have 8 adat and 8
    > > > analog ins on each unit. So 2 units in 2 rackspaces would do the
    > > > trick.

    > >
    > > Where are the knobs?

    >
    > It's got virtual knobs:)
    >
    > Mike http://www.mmeproductions.com
  15. ScotFraser

    ScotFraser Guest

    << but for just being able to tell that nice clean signals are
    being recorded and not modulated noise, I think it would be invaluable for
    people using HD recorders in the field.
    >>


    For real useability you'd need solos also.



    Scott Fraser
  16. John L Rice

    John L Rice Guest

    Good idea Scott. It is sort of a pain to turn down 23 channels so you can
    just listen to one. Maybe slip in a tiny switch for each channel or use
    pots with switches so pulling out the knob solos it. Or you could cheat and
    put a DB-25 connector on the back and have a small external box with the
    solo switches in it.

    John L Rice
    Drummer@ImJohn.com

    "ScotFraser" <scotfraser@aol.com> wrote in message
    news:20030814125327.05187.00000884@mb-m01.aol.com...
    > << but for just being able to tell that nice clean signals are
    > being recorded and not modulated noise, I think it would be invaluable for
    > people using HD recorders in the field.
    > >>

    >
    > For real useability you'd need solos also.
    >
    >
    >
    > Scott Fraser
  17. The Roland M-240R doesn't have solo, but it does have several aux
    busses, so I use one for solos- keeping the knobs down and 'bumping'
    the channel I want to audition.

    Again, I think it's a good choice: 24+ channels, 4RU


    In article <vjojpfd6hjure9@corp.supernews.com>, John L Rice
    <Drummer@ImJohn.com> wrote:

    > Good idea Scott. It is sort of a pain to turn down 23 channels so you can
    > just listen to one. Maybe slip in a tiny switch for each channel or use
    > pots with switches so pulling out the knob solos it. Or you could cheat and
    > put a DB-25 connector on the back and have a small external box with the
    > solo switches in it.
    >
    > John L Rice
    > Drummer@ImJohn.com
    >
    > "ScotFraser" <scotfraser@aol.com> wrote in message
    > news:20030814125327.05187.00000884@mb-m01.aol.com...
    > > << but for just being able to tell that nice clean signals are
    > > being recorded and not modulated noise, I think it would be invaluable for
    > > people using HD recorders in the field.
    > > >>

    > >
    > > For real useability you'd need solos also.
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > > Scott Fraser

    >
    >


    --
    John Etnier
    Studio Dual
    http://www.studiodual.com
  18. Rick Knepper

    Rick Knepper Guest

    One would think with the number of 24 track recorders on the market, there
    would be a rush (or at least a trot) to supply a front or back end solution
    specifically for these products, but no.

    --
    Rick Knepper
    MicroComputer Support Services
    Knepper Audio
    Ft. Worth, TX
    817-239-9632
    413-215-1267 Fax
    PC Tech Support & Equipment Sales
    CDR Duplication & Audio Mastering
    Recording
    http://www.rknepper.com


    "Burt Jones" <mixcubed2002@yahoo.com> wrote in message
    news:7e6ab006.0308122133.3d384449@posting.google.com...
    > I am buying an HD24 for a small mobile recording rig and I need to
    > find the smallest possible rackmounted mixer that can accomodate 24
    > channels so I can monitor the outputs of the recorder.
    >
    > So far I haven't been able to find anything small at all. The Speck
    > Xtramix and the Mackie LM3204 are the two that I found and they both
    > look to be 4 or 5U.
    >
    > Does anyone have any other suggestions for a portable 24 channel
    > mixer. I'd love to find something in 2U if possible.
    >
    > Or, if there is a such thing as a 24 channel lightpipe mixer in 1U,
    > that would be freaking awesome. I know the 2408 has 3 lightpipe
    > inputs, but can you monitor them without having to haul a computer
    > around?
    >
    > Any ideas?
    >
    > Burt Jones
    > Mediastar Productions
  19. Les Cargill

    Les Cargill Guest

    Rick Knepper wrote:
    >
    > One would think with the number of 24 track recorders on the market, there
    > would be a rush (or at least a trot) to supply a front or back end solution
    > specifically for these products, but no.
    >


    Too many bits.

    Lightpipe is 16Bit@44.1X8, or something like 5 megabit.

    It'd take what, 6 Lightpipe interfaces to get 24 channels at 24 bits for
    44.1 or 48ksample? 24 @ 24 for 48k is 27.648 megabit.

    You can use any of a number of things as a digital mixer to faux up a
    cue mix. None of these things are naturally rackmount, dunno if
    they can even be made to be so.

    24 channels in 2 RU? Sheesh. Allen screw pots, or what?

    > --
    > Rick Knepper
    > MicroComputer Support Services
    > Knepper Audio
    > Ft. Worth, TX
    > 817-239-9632
    > 413-215-1267 Fax
    > PC Tech Support & Equipment Sales
    > CDR Duplication & Audio Mastering
    > Recording
    > http://www.rknepper.com
    >
    > "Burt Jones" <mixcubed2002@yahoo.com> wrote in message
    > news:7e6ab006.0308122133.3d384449@posting.google.com...
    > > I am buying an HD24 for a small mobile recording rig and I need to
    > > find the smallest possible rackmounted mixer that can accomodate 24
    > > channels so I can monitor the outputs of the recorder.
    > >
    > > So far I haven't been able to find anything small at all. The Speck
    > > Xtramix and the Mackie LM3204 are the two that I found and they both
    > > look to be 4 or 5U.
    > >
    > > Does anyone have any other suggestions for a portable 24 channel
    > > mixer. I'd love to find something in 2U if possible.
    > >
    > > Or, if there is a such thing as a 24 channel lightpipe mixer in 1U,
    > > that would be freaking awesome. I know the 2408 has 3 lightpipe
    > > inputs, but can you monitor them without having to haul a computer
    > > around?
    > >
    > > Any ideas?
    > >
    > > Burt Jones
    > > Mediastar Productions



    --
    Les Cargill
  20. Hal Laurent

    Hal Laurent Guest

    "Les Cargill" <lcargill@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message
    news:3F3CEC42.D1FB7241@worldnet.att.net...
    >
    > Too many bits.
    >
    > Lightpipe is 16Bit@44.1X8, or something like 5 megabit.
    >
    > It'd take what, 6 Lightpipe interfaces to get 24 channels at 24 bits for
    > 44.1 or 48ksample? 24 @ 24 for 48k is 27.648 megabit.


    Lightpipe does 8 channels of 24 bit 48k just fine.

    88.1 or 96k is another story.

    Hal Laurent
    Baltimore

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