AMD vs Intel?

Discussion in 'rec.audio.pro' started by Calan, Aug 11, 2003.

  1. Calan

    Calan Guest

    Any major issues/suggestions regarding AMD vs. Intel for a DAW?

    I'll be using Cakewalk Pro Audio (or sonar) and a Duo audio board for the
    time being.

    Thanks in advance!

    Calan

    AxMaster Guitar Software
    www.jcsautomation.com
    www.jcsautomation.com/music.asp
    Music software and web design/hosting

    "Reality exists only in the minds of the extremely deranged"
  2. Edi Zubovic

    Edi Zubovic Guest

    On Mon, 11 Aug 2003 21:18:31 GMT, "Calan"
    <calan_svcREMOVE@yaNOSPAMhoo.com> wrote:

    >Any major issues/suggestions regarding AMD vs. Intel for a DAW?
    >
    >I'll be using Cakewalk Pro Audio (or sonar) and a Duo audio board for the
    >time being.
    >
    >Thanks in advance!
    >
    >Calan
    >
    >AxMaster Guitar Software
    >www.jcsautomation.com
    >www.jcsautomation.com/music.asp
    >Music software and web design/hosting
    >
    >"Reality exists only in the minds of the extremely deranged"
    >
    >


    Any having a "Denormals Are Zero" (DAZ) feature. I have an AMD 2600+,
    it hasn't it and I have sometimes spikes which I can control but
    again, if Intel would have such a feature, it would be my next choice.
    But then, dithering fixes denormalisation issues anyway.

    I think Intel is more promising than AMD at the leading edge though
    (SSE2, SSE3, Hyper-Threading etc). But as to power, I'm fine with the
    AMD as well for now.

    Edi Zubovic, Crikvenica, Croatia
  3. Eric Griffin

    Eric Griffin Guest

    Personally, I'd look for the most stable motherboard/chipset. The proc
    really doesn't matter so much except to zealots.

    My lurking career here and on the Cakewalk newsgroups has often led me to
    Scott Reams's advice, which is worth looking for. He builds and uses AMD
    because, in his experience, Athlons have a higher maximum load for DAW use
    than P4s.

    I've chosen to use Athlons for my last two machines because they were about
    $100 cheaper than comparable Intel machines. Then I go and spend the
    leftover $100 on sample libraries and such. :)

    --Eric

    "Calan" <calan_svcREMOVE@yaNOSPAMhoo.com> wrote in message
    news:1LTZa.4518$eY3.1991310465@twister2.starband.net...
    > Any major issues/suggestions regarding AMD vs. Intel for a DAW?
    >
    > I'll be using Cakewalk Pro Audio (or sonar) and a Duo audio board for the
    > time being.
    >
    > Thanks in advance!
    >
    > Calan
    >
    > AxMaster Guitar Software
    > www.jcsautomation.com
    > www.jcsautomation.com/music.asp
    > Music software and web design/hosting
    >
    > "Reality exists only in the minds of the extremely deranged"
    >
    >
    >
  4. I use nothing but Athlons, and I am very satisfied. They are usually louder
    boxes though, because they run hotter and require more fanning, if that will
    be a problem. I keep my 3 boxes in a separate room. I could not possibly
    have them all in the control room.

    Bill L

    "Calan" <calan_svcREMOVE@yaNOSPAMhoo.com> wrote in message
    news:1LTZa.4518$eY3.1991310465@twister2.starband.net...
    > Any major issues/suggestions regarding AMD vs. Intel for a DAW?
    >
    > I'll be using Cakewalk Pro Audio (or sonar) and a Duo audio board for the
    > time being.
    >
    > Thanks in advance!
    >
    > Calan
    >
    > AxMaster Guitar Software
    > www.jcsautomation.com
    > www.jcsautomation.com/music.asp
    > Music software and web design/hosting
    >
    > "Reality exists only in the minds of the extremely deranged"
    >
    >
    >
  5. "Calan" <calan_svcREMOVE@yaNOSPAMhoo.com> wrote in message
    > Any major issues/suggestions regarding AMD vs. Intel for a DAW?


    I have read that Athlons are louder than Pentiums. My XP2000 is very loud
    but I've never actually compared it to an equivalent P4.
  6. Martin

    Martin Guest

    Agreed, Athlons are much louder. I have an Athlon 1.2 ghz and a Pentium 2.4
    ghz. The Athlon sounds like a jet ready for takeoff. The stock Pentium was
    far quieter. I then added a Zalman CNPS7000-CU heatsink and a quiet Zalman
    power supply to the Pentium. That toned things down even further. Then I
    built an insulated box to house the computer. Again, lost a few decibals.
    It's very quiet now. I say go with the Pentium and then start working on
    making it quiet. If you keep the computer in another room then it's probably
    not an issue. Mine sits right next to where my gear is.

    Martin


    "Thomas Bishop" <bishopthomas@cox-internet.com> wrote in message
    news:EeXZa.523$%i4.403008550@newssvr12.news.prodigy.com...
    > "Calan" <calan_svcREMOVE@yaNOSPAMhoo.com> wrote in message
    > > Any major issues/suggestions regarding AMD vs. Intel for a DAW?

    >
    > I have read that Athlons are louder than Pentiums. My XP2000 is very loud
    > but I've never actually compared it to an equivalent P4.
    >
    >
  7. Eric Griffin

    Eric Griffin Guest

    I have a different opinion on the noise issue - I don't think Athlons are
    necessarily noisier, although they do usually run hotter than P4's, all
    other things being equal.

    On my last round of system building, the Zalman flower cooler was the
    quietest heatsink/fan for either AMD or Intel when paired with a
    large-diameter, slow-rpm fan. It also cools well. I keep it on a low
    voltage and cannot hear it when I put my head next to the computer case of
    my Athlon XP2600 system.

    How would having a P4 instead of the Athlon be quieter?

    --Eric

    "Martin" <langem@shaw.ca> wrote in message
    news:EBXZa.731434$Vi5.16716455@news1.calgary.shaw.ca...
    > Agreed, Athlons are much louder. I have an Athlon 1.2 ghz and a Pentium

    2.4
    > ghz. The Athlon sounds like a jet ready for takeoff. The stock Pentium was
    > far quieter. I then added a Zalman CNPS7000-CU heatsink and a quiet Zalman
    > power supply to the Pentium. That toned things down even further. Then I
    > built an insulated box to house the computer. Again, lost a few decibals.
    > It's very quiet now. I say go with the Pentium and then start working on
    > making it quiet. If you keep the computer in another room then it's

    probably
    > not an issue. Mine sits right next to where my gear is.
    >
    > Martin
    >
    >
    > "Thomas Bishop" <bishopthomas@cox-internet.com> wrote in message
    > news:EeXZa.523$%i4.403008550@newssvr12.news.prodigy.com...
    > > "Calan" <calan_svcREMOVE@yaNOSPAMhoo.com> wrote in message
    > > > Any major issues/suggestions regarding AMD vs. Intel for a DAW?

    > >
    > > I have read that Athlons are louder than Pentiums. My XP2000 is very

    loud
    > > but I've never actually compared it to an equivalent P4.
    > >
    > >

    >
    >
  8. Martin

    Martin Guest


    > I have a different opinion on the noise issue - I don't think Athlons are
    > necessarily noisier, although they do usually run hotter than P4's, all
    > other things being equal.


    True

    > On my last round of system building, the Zalman flower cooler was the
    > quietest heatsink/fan for either AMD or Intel when paired with a
    > large-diameter, slow-rpm fan. It also cools well. I keep it on a low
    > voltage and cannot hear it when I put my head next to the computer case of
    > my Athlon XP2600 system.


    It will cool adequately as long as there is not a big load on the system.
    That's how I blew my first athlon processor. As long as it wasn't doing too
    much it cooled good enough. After loading up the system and running for a
    while, sizzle. Fried the CPU. So much for my fancy, high end, quiet,
    heatsink. I would not risk that again. What a pain in the ??? Haul your PC
    to the shop, new CPU, better heatsink, etc.

    > How would having a P4 instead of the Athlon be quieter?


    Running quiet heatsinks is safer with Pentiums, not necessarily quieter,
    because they run cooler. I think that this is especially important in
    localities where the temperatures are very hot.

    The first Athlon I owned eventually became the was the quietest, it's dead.

    Martin
  9. Arny Krueger

    Arny Krueger Guest

    "Thomas Bishop" <bishopthomas@cox-internet.com> wrote in message
    news:EeXZa.523$%i4.403008550@newssvr12.news.prodigy.com
    > "Calan" <calan_svcREMOVE@yaNOSPAMhoo.com> wrote in message
    >> Any major issues/suggestions regarding AMD vs. Intel for a DAW?

    >
    > I have read that Athlons are louder than Pentiums. My XP2000 is very
    > loud but I've never actually compared it to an equivalent P4.


    Actually, CPU chips run almost totally silently. I've never noticed any of
    the noises one gets with say, large power transistors and ICs in power amps.

    I hear tell its the fans that are often used with CPU chips that make the
    noise...

    ;-)
  10. Mike Rivers

    Mike Rivers Guest

    In article <O1SdnYDNCc2b0aWiXTWJkQ@comcast.com> e-tgriff@comcast.net writes:

    > I have a different opinion on the noise issue - I don't think Athlons are
    > necessarily noisier, although they do usually run hotter than P4's, all
    > other things being equal.


    It's not the CPU that's noisier, it's the cooling device. If it runs
    hotter for the same functional power, it needs more cooling. The
    cheapest way (remember - this is a computer that people expect to be
    cheap) to increase cooling is to make the small fan (which doesn't use
    much metal and doesn't require fancy bearings) run faster. When it
    runs faster, it makes more noise. But it may not be practical to make
    a fan for a Pentium even smaller, so it can run a little slower.
    Hence, a cheap Athlon computer will probably generate more noise than
    a cheap Pentium.

    > On my last round of system building, the Zalman flower cooler was the
    > quietest heatsink/fan for either AMD or Intel when paired with a
    > large-diameter, slow-rpm fan. It also cools well.


    And this rig cost you how much? About $40-50? If the manufacturer
    built the computer with this type of cooling instead of a tiny
    turbine, it would probably increase the cost of the computer on the
    department store shelf by $200 or more. Few people would pay that, so
    they wouldn't sell many, perhaps meaning that it would have to cost
    $400 more in order to be worth producing at all. Of course if you buy
    your computers by the piece this isn't a consideration.

    > How would having a P4 instead of the Athlon be quieter?


    Probably no reason for that to be the case if you put the right
    components together and don't worry about a few more bucks here and
    there. But manufacturers of ready-to-go boxes, unless its a company
    like Carillon, don't have that luxury. The stockholders don't like
    anything that raises costs and cuts into the profits.



    --
    I'm really Mike Rivers - (mrivers@d-and-d.com)
  11. "Arny Krueger" <arnyk@hotpop.com> wrote in message
    > Actually, CPU chips run almost totally silently. I've never noticed any of
    > the noises one gets with say, large power transistors and ICs in power

    amps.
    >
    > I hear tell its the fans that are often used with CPU chips that make the
    > noise...



    I knew someone would call me on that. Fine, the fans used for Athlons are
    usually louder than those used for P4's. Again, this is just what I've read
    from others' accounts, not my own personal experience.
  12. "Thomas Bishop" <bishopthomas@sbcglobal.net> wrote in
    news:vU5_a.525$i07.494@newssvr23.news.prodigy.com on Tue, 12 Aug 2003
    13:24:43 GMT

    > "Arny Krueger" <arnyk@hotpop.com> wrote in message
    >> Actually, CPU chips run almost totally silently. I've never noticed
    >> any of the noises one gets with say, large power transistors and ICs
    >> in power

    > amps.
    >>
    >> I hear tell its the fans that are often used with CPU chips that make
    >> the noise...

    >
    >
    > I knew someone would call me on that. Fine, the fans used for Athlons
    > are usually louder than those used for P4's. Again, this is just what
    > I've read from others' accounts, not my own personal experience.


    Thats typically the case, however newer P4s use as much power as AMDs these
    days, so they tend to be pretty close with the odd intel chip which will
    need more cooling than all the AMD ones. Then again intel does run at a
    higher bus speed - which does explain the extra power requirements.

    If you want a silent PC then go for a PowerPC thing. There are some G3s
    that use about only 3w in power apperently. Even G4 use no power at all
    compared to x86. Of course you'll be stuck on linux/macos and maybe Amiga
    OS4 (when its done) with such a processor - but if the right software
    becomes availible it might just be worth switching. You won't need a fancy
    graphics card either - so yet one less fan to have in the system. Also the
    PSU shouldn't need be as bulky and therefore silet ones might start to
    become avilable (cheaply).

    --
    Robert Naylor aka Pobice (The Goblin) - http://www.pobice.com
    ukmrr Chat Room - http://www.pobice.com/radcliffe/
    Gearstones Lodge - http://www.gearstones.com/
    Need A Website? - http://www.pobice.com/website/
  13. Arny Krueger

    Arny Krueger Guest

    "Thomas Bishop" <bishopthomas@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
    news:vU5_a.525$i07.494@newssvr23.news.prodigy.com
    > "Arny Krueger" <arnyk@hotpop.com> wrote in message


    >> Actually, CPU chips run almost totally silently. I've never noticed
    >> any of the noises one gets with say, large power transistors and ICs
    >> in power amps.


    >> I hear tell its the fans that are often used with CPU chips that
    >> make the noise...


    > I knew someone would call me on that.


    ;-)


    > Fine, the fans used for
    > Athlons are usually louder than those used for P4's.


    That may be true. It may also be true that P4s of a given level of
    performance dissipate less heat than comparable Athlons. OTOH, those two
    extra power supply cables with connectors aren't for Athlons, they are for
    P4s. If P4s use less power, why do they need extra power cables?

    > Again, this is
    > just what I've read from others' accounts, not my own personal
    > experience.


    IME, my distributor wants what seems like 2-3x the $$$ for a P4 that seems
    to do about the same thing (in the real world) as a comparable Athlon. I
    call this "The Intel Speed Tax". I can't believe that Compaq and Dell are
    faced with the same kind of decision.
  14. "Arny Krueger" wrote ...
    > That may be true. It may also be true that P4s of a given
    > level of performance dissipate less heat than comparable
    > Athlons. OTOH, those two extra power supply cables with
    > connectors aren't for Athlons, they are for P4s. If P4s use
    > less power, why do they need extra power cables?


    The ones I have dealt with are 12V (yellow wire).
    The CPUs (AMD or Intel) don't use 12V, so they are not for the CPUs.
  15. Edi Zubovic

    Edi Zubovic Guest

    On Tue, 12 Aug 2003 11:52:48 -0400, "Arny Krueger" <arnyk@hotpop.com>
    wrote:

    hlons are usually louder than those used for P4's.
    >
    >That may be true. It may also be true that P4s of a given level of
    >performance dissipate less heat than comparable Athlons. OTOH, those two
    >extra power supply cables with connectors aren't for Athlons, they are for
    >P4s. If P4s use less power, why do they need extra power cables?
    >


    It seems that some motherboard manufacturers began to utilize the aux.
    12V connector for Athlon-based m/bs too. I installed recently a Soltek
    m/b having Nvidia's nForce2 chipset and dual channel memory support. I
    installed it as usual just to see that the PC wouldn't give a sign of
    life until I looked better and found that aux. socket; plugged the
    connector in and everything was working fine. It seems to reduce ie.
    distribute the power supply load more efficiently now.

    Edi Zubovic, Crikvenica, Croatia
  16. R-R, humor! <g>

    --


    Roger W. Norman
    SirMusic Studio
    Purchase your copy of the Fifth of RAP CD set at www.recaudiopro.net. See
    how far $25 really goes.




    "Arny Krueger" <arnyk@hotpop.com> wrote in message
    news:ISadnfej-tuiU6WiXTWJhQ@comcast.com...
    > "Thomas Bishop" <bishopthomas@cox-internet.com> wrote in message
    > news:EeXZa.523$%i4.403008550@newssvr12.news.prodigy.com
    > > "Calan" <calan_svcREMOVE@yaNOSPAMhoo.com> wrote in message
    > >> Any major issues/suggestions regarding AMD vs. Intel for a DAW?

    > >
    > > I have read that Athlons are louder than Pentiums. My XP2000 is very
    > > loud but I've never actually compared it to an equivalent P4.

    >
    > Actually, CPU chips run almost totally silently. I've never noticed any of
    > the noises one gets with say, large power transistors and ICs in power

    amps.
    >
    > I hear tell its the fans that are often used with CPU chips that make the
    > noise...
    >
    > ;-)
    >
    >
  17. Arny Krueger

    Arny Krueger Guest

    "Richard Crowley" <rcrowley7@xprt.net> wrote in message
    news:vji5m6bdnu2v01@corp.supernews.com
    > "Arny Krueger" wrote ...
    >> That may be true. It may also be true that P4s of a given
    >> level of performance dissipate less heat than comparable
    >> Athlons. OTOH, those two extra power supply cables with
    >> connectors aren't for Athlons, they are for P4s. If P4s use
    >> less power, why do they need extra power cables?

    >
    > The ones I have dealt with are 12V (yellow wire).
    > The CPUs (AMD or Intel) don't use 12V, so they are not for the CPUs.


    I have a "P4" power supply right here. While there may be Athlon boards that
    use these connectors, I've never seen one.

    The two *extra* connectors that I never hook up seem to have the following
    wires in them:

    ground (4 wires)
    12 volts (2 wires)
    5 volts (2 wires)
    3.3 volts (2 wires)
  18. Eric Griffin

    Eric Griffin Guest

    "Mike Rivers" <mrivers@d-and-d.com> wrote in message
    news:znr1060686487k@trad...
    >
    > In article <O1SdnYDNCc2b0aWiXTWJkQ@comcast.com> e-tgriff@comcast.net

    writes:
    >
    > > I have a different opinion on the noise issue - I don't think Athlons

    are
    > > necessarily noisier, although they do usually run hotter than P4's, all
    > > other things being equal.

    >
    > It's not the CPU that's noisier, it's the cooling device. If it runs
    > hotter for the same functional power, it needs more cooling. The
    > cheapest way (remember - this is a computer that people expect to be
    > cheap) to increase cooling is to make the small fan (which doesn't use
    > much metal and doesn't require fancy bearings) run faster. When it
    > runs faster, it makes more noise. But it may not be practical to make
    > a fan for a Pentium even smaller, so it can run a little slower.
    > Hence, a cheap Athlon computer will probably generate more noise than
    > a cheap Pentium.


    Agreed on all points - I was operating under the (faulty) assumption that we
    were discussing self-built systems. And I figured we all knew that the
    actual noise source was the cooling system, not the proc.

    --Eric
  19. Eric Griffin

    Eric Griffin Guest

    "Martin" <langem@shaw.ca> wrote in message
    news:a2_Za.732581$Vi5.16754580@news1.calgary.shaw.ca...
    >
    > > I have a different opinion on the noise issue - I don't think Athlons

    are
    > > necessarily noisier, although they do usually run hotter than P4's, all
    > > other things being equal.

    >
    > True
    >
    > > On my last round of system building, the Zalman flower cooler was the
    > > quietest heatsink/fan for either AMD or Intel when paired with a
    > > large-diameter, slow-rpm fan. It also cools well. I keep it on a low
    > > voltage and cannot hear it when I put my head next to the computer case

    of
    > > my Athlon XP2600 system.

    >
    > It will cool adequately as long as there is not a big load on the system.
    > That's how I blew my first athlon processor. As long as it wasn't doing

    too
    > much it cooled good enough. After loading up the system and running for a
    > while, sizzle. Fried the CPU. So much for my fancy, high end, quiet,
    > heatsink. I would not risk that again. What a pain in the ??? Haul your PC
    > to the shop, new CPU, better heatsink, etc.
    >
    > > How would having a P4 instead of the Athlon be quieter?

    >
    > Running quiet heatsinks is safer with Pentiums, not necessarily quieter,
    > because they run cooler. I think that this is especially important in
    > localities where the temperatures are very hot.
    >
    > The first Athlon I owned eventually became the was the quietest, it's

    dead.
    >
    > Martin


    Major bummer! FWIW, I've run Zalmans on Athlon "Thunderbird" 750, XP1600,
    XP1800, and XP2600. The temps did rise quite a bit while under the hardest
    loads put the CPU under (rendering video in Vegas), but never more than the
    low 50's C.

    If I were assembling my own system today, I'd give a pretty serious look at
    a P4. The price difference between it and the AMD has narrowed
    considerably. But for me, the other issues (performance, cooling/noise,
    compatibility, etc.) haven't been issues at all.

    --Eric
  20. Mike Rivers

    Mike Rivers Guest

    In article <bhc4mk$i4i$1@newsg1.svr.pol.co.uk> CatKiller@nospamplease.Bigfoot.com writes:

    > Then there are the water-cooling options. If you use water to transfer the
    > heat away from the processor then you can run it through a large radiator on
    > top of the case - or anywhere else for that matter.


    The son of a friend of mine is a serious gamer/overclocker and he had
    a home built water cooled system for a while. It gurgled. Kind of
    cute, but still distracting.

    > If you want ludicrous amounts of cooling, then there are always Peltier
    > coolers than can get your processor running at significantly sub-zero
    > temperatures.


    Fine, as long as you don't have to then cool the power supply for the
    Peltier cooler.

    > In my experience, however, the greatest source of noise in a PC isn't the
    > heat-sink fan at all, but the fan in the power supply.


    In a nicely built PC, this may be true, but in your average
    off-the-shelf computer, often the heat sink fans are the noisemakers.
    When I was trying to quiet down my Mackie hard disk recorder, stopping
    the CPU fan was much more effective than stopping the power supply
    fan. Power supply fans are all about the same size and speed (some are
    thermostatically controlled) but CPU fans run the gambit. Cheap ones
    are small and fast, and their noise spectrum tends to be move toward
    the higher frequencies, where our ear is more sensitive, and where we
    find the sound to be more annoying or distracting (so it takes less
    SPL to make us want to do something about it). This is why a large,
    slower CPU fan is frequenty a subjectively effective solution.

    > If the sound is still a problem, and you aren't over-clocking or anything to
    > generate a large amount of heat, then there are cases available that are
    > lined to damp out some of the noise of a PC.


    Also, long cables and cable externders are available so you can use
    the tried-and-true solution of putting the moisy machine in the
    "machine room", out of the way of your ears and your microphones.



    --
    I'm really Mike Rivers - (mrivers@d-and-d.com)

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