Another Fender Pro Junior Question

Discussion in 'rec.music.guitar' started by bluetrain, Aug 29, 2003.

  1. bluetrain

    bluetrain Guest

    According to everything I have read about Fender Pro Junior amp by
    now, it appears that this amp breaks up relatively early.

    My question is: does this amp have enough clean headroom so that it
    could be miked? In other words, when playing live, would this amp be
    usable at lower volumes – the volumes at which it stays relatively
    clean -- when miked with something like SM57 into Mackie mixer and a
    couple of SRM450 speakers or is this amp good only for overdriven
    sound. This setup would be used for small-medium size rooms.

    Any comments would be appreciated.
    Erol
  2. howldog

    howldog Guest

    On 29 Aug 2003 10:30:33 -0700, bluetrain@mail.com (bluetrain) wrote:

    >According to everything I have read about Fender Pro Junior amp by
    >now, it appears that this amp breaks up relatively early.
    >
    >My question is: does this amp have enough clean headroom so that it
    >could be miked? In other words, when playing live, would this amp be
    >usable at lower volumes –



    depends on how loud the rest of the band is. You can use a Princeton
    live and mic it, if you have an excellent monitor system, and dont
    have a caveman for a drummer whose sole intent is to destroy the
    hearing of everybody within 500 yards.

    problem with using these small low-power amps.... they arent loud
    enough on their own, they have to be mic'd, and at that point, in
    order for you, and everybody else to hear the amp, has to be run thru
    the monitors. In many cases, the other band members dont want that
    much guitar in the monitors. They'll hate you.

    well, they hate me sometimes anyway.
  3. On Fri, 29 Aug 2003 14:43:46 -0400, howldog
    <howldogAINTNOSPAMMAGNET@yahoo.com> wrote:

    >On 29 Aug 2003 10:30:33 -0700, bluetrain@mail.com (bluetrain) wrote:
    >
    >>According to everything I have read about Fender Pro Junior amp by
    >>now, it appears that this amp breaks up relatively early.
    >>
    >>My question is: does this amp have enough clean headroom so that it
    >>could be miked? In other words, when playing live, would this amp be
    >>usable at lower volumes –

    >
    >
    >depends on how loud the rest of the band is. You can use a Princeton
    >live and mic it, if you have an excellent monitor system, and dont
    >have a caveman for a drummer whose sole intent is to destroy the
    >hearing of everybody within 500 yards.
    >
    >problem with using these small low-power amps.... they arent loud
    >enough on their own, they have to be mic'd, and at that point, in
    >order for you, and everybody else to hear the amp, has to be run thru
    >the monitors. In many cases, the other band members dont want that
    >much guitar in the monitors. They'll hate you.


    If you've got enough monitor mixes to have *your* amp loud in *your*
    monitor (and not so much your bandmates) it's doable. Otherwise...
    Pro Junior ain't enough amp. Sorry.

    Texas Pete
  4. ryanm

    ryanm Guest

    "howldog" <howldogAINTNOSPAMMAGNET@yahoo.com> wrote in message
    news:7g7vkvcinajg4de20vem2hi483oioshlbh@4ax.com...
    >
    > problem with using these small low-power amps.... they arent loud
    > enough on their own, they have to be mic'd, and at that point, in
    > order for you, and everybody else to hear the amp, has to be run thru
    > the monitors. In many cases, the other band members dont want that
    > much guitar in the monitors. They'll hate you.
    >

    If your band isn't excessively loud, you could get away with it by
    putting it on an amp stand so that it's pointed at your head. However, it
    does break up early, so you would be right on the threshold, and if you have
    buckers, you'd probably get some distortion anyway. Something in the 18-38
    watt range would probably be better. Also, something with 2x10 would stay
    clean at louder volumes, that pro junior is easy to drive the speaker, which
    is why I considered it for a harmonica amp. It gets nice tube and speaker
    distortion at relatively low volumes, but I got way too much feedback
    holding a hot harp mic in my hand and standing right in front of it.

    ryanm
  5. Erol

    Erol Guest

    Thanks to both of you for the suggestions! Ryan, since you mentioned an
    external cab,
    I was wondering if you had any suggestions for external cab as far as
    getting a little more
    clean headroom and making this amp sound better while in the "clean range."

    I was thinking of using this amp with an inexpensive 2X12 cab that could be
    made
    with various Celestion and Eminence speakers.

    If offered these speakers in 2X12 cab what would you say would be a
    good match for Pro Junior having in mind "more clean headroom" requirement:

    Celestion Greenback
    Celestion Vintage 30's
    Celestion Classic Lead 80
    Celestion G12H30's
    Celestion Seventy/80's
    Eminence V12's,
    Eminence GB12's
    Eminence M12's
    Eminence Alnico 122

    Erol

    "ryanm" <ryanm@fatchicksinpartyhats.com> wrote in message
    news:vkv9vl3aqb24e7@corp.supernews.com...
    > "howldog" <howldogAINTNOSPAMMAGNET@yahoo.com> wrote in message
    > news:7g7vkvcinajg4de20vem2hi483oioshlbh@4ax.com...
    > >
    > > problem with using these small low-power amps.... they arent loud
    > > enough on their own, they have to be mic'd, and at that point, in
    > > order for you, and everybody else to hear the amp, has to be run thru
    > > the monitors. In many cases, the other band members dont want that
    > > much guitar in the monitors. They'll hate you.
    > >

    > If your band isn't excessively loud, you could get away with it by
    > putting it on an amp stand so that it's pointed at your head. However, it
    > does break up early, so you would be right on the threshold, and if you

    have
    > buckers, you'd probably get some distortion anyway. Something in the 18-38
    > watt range would probably be better. Also, something with 2x10 would stay
    > clean at louder volumes, that pro junior is easy to drive the speaker,

    which
    > is why I considered it for a harmonica amp. It gets nice tube and speaker
    > distortion at relatively low volumes, but I got way too much feedback
    > holding a hot harp mic in my hand and standing right in front of it.
    >
    > ryanm
    >
    >
  6. Les Cargill

    Les Cargill Guest

    ryanm wrote:
    >
    > "Erol" <bluetrain@mail.com> wrote in message
    > news:g%e4b.13270$Pd1.13079@twister.rdc-kc.rr.com...
    > > Thanks to both of you for the suggestions! Ryan, since you mentioned an
    > > external cab,
    > > I was wondering if you had any suggestions for external cab as far as
    > > getting a little more
    > > clean headroom and making this amp sound better while in the "clean

    > range."
    > >

    > Well, I didn't necessarily mean a 2x10 on the pro junior, I don't think
    > it has a speaker output.


    I can't remember exactly, but I think it has a jack in the case
    instead of two wires grommetted into the case. Not that it matters -
    the spade connectors will fit on a loose 1/4" jack, and a speaker cable
    after that to the bigger cab.

    > You won't get any more headroom from changing the
    > speakers, but you will push more air with a 2x10, making it a bit louder,
    > and you won't overdrive the speakers as easily as a single 10".
    >


    A set of larger speakers will usually change the load on an amp
    to where it might actually have more headroom. It's not merely louder,
    the larger speakers are usually a little higher compliance at
    frequencies that pinch the response of the amp. As usual,
    it depends.

    Any amp with a 1X12 run through a good 2X12 will seem to have more
    dynamic range.

    A Bandmaster seemed tighter than a Deluxe, and they have
    approximately the same power section.

    <snip>
    > ryanm



    --
    Les Cargill
  7. ryanm

    ryanm Guest

    "Erol" <bluetrain@mail.com> wrote in message
    news:g%e4b.13270$Pd1.13079@twister.rdc-kc.rr.com...
    > Thanks to both of you for the suggestions! Ryan, since you mentioned an
    > external cab,
    > I was wondering if you had any suggestions for external cab as far as
    > getting a little more
    > clean headroom and making this amp sound better while in the "clean

    range."
    >

    Well, I didn't necessarily mean a 2x10 on the pro junior, I don't think
    it has a speaker output. You won't get any more headroom from changing the
    speakers, but you will push more air with a 2x10, making it a bit louder,
    and you won't overdrive the speakers as easily as a single 10".

    > If offered these speakers in 2X12 cab what would you say would be a
    > good match for Pro Junior having in mind "more clean headroom"

    requirement:
    >

    I'm not much of an amp tech, although there are a few around here who
    could probably give you better suggestions for this kind of thing. For
    practice and gigging at your average bar/small venue, I like a low wattage
    amp, like 18-25 watts, with a 2x10 cab. The best stuff in that range, that
    doesn't cost a fortune, would be a small Dr. Z or Rivera (IMO, of course).
    Which one would work better for you is a matter of taste, the Riveras have a
    million knobs and switches, while the Dr. Z amps are simpler, but they are
    both nice tube amps with a good clean and a great dirty sound. I'm pretty
    sure you can get both in 2x10 or 2x12 combos, and I'm pretty sure you can
    also buy both of them as heads and use your own external cabs.

    I get the feeling that the pro junior was meant mostly to be a practice
    amp, and it's great for that. I love a simple, single-channel amp, and the
    PJ sounds great for a small, inexpensive amp. Unfortunately, it was just
    wrong for me for gigging. It was just too much trouble trying to balance the
    volume against the feedback I would get if I turned the wrong way with the
    harmonica mic in my hand. I ended up getting a POD, as much as I didn't want
    to, and it works great for my purpose. I would never want to use one to play
    guitar live with, but for the harmonica it actually works pretty well.

    ryanm
  8. ryanm

    ryanm Guest

    "Les Cargill" <lcargill@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message
    news:3F52455C.5F3DACBF@worldnet.att.net...
    >
    > A set of larger speakers will usually change the load on an amp
    > to where it might actually have more headroom. It's not merely louder,
    > the larger speakers are usually a little higher compliance at
    > frequencies that pinch the response of the amp. As usual,
    > it depends.
    >
    > Any amp with a 1X12 run through a good 2X12 will seem to have more
    > dynamic range.
    >
    > A Bandmaster seemed tighter than a Deluxe, and they have
    > approximately the same power section.
    >

    See, I told you an amp tech type would come by with better info. ; )

    ryanm
  9. Les Cargill

    Les Cargill Guest

    ryanm wrote:
    >
    > "Les Cargill" <lcargill@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message
    > news:3F52455C.5F3DACBF@worldnet.att.net...
    > >
    > > A set of larger speakers will usually change the load on an amp
    > > to where it might actually have more headroom. It's not merely louder,
    > > the larger speakers are usually a little higher compliance at
    > > frequencies that pinch the response of the amp. As usual,
    > > it depends.
    > >
    > > Any amp with a 1X12 run through a good 2X12 will seem to have more
    > > dynamic range.
    > >
    > > A Bandmaster seemed tighter than a Deluxe, and they have
    > > approximately the same power section.
    > >

    > See, I told you an amp tech type would come by with better info. ; )
    >
    > ryanm


    I'm no amp tech - I think of that as somebody who can diagnose
    and fix problems quickly. I just drive 'em.

    There are people on here who really are amp techs. I just plug
    stuff together until it sounds good.

    --
    Les Cargill
  10. Erol

    Erol Guest

    Again, thanks to all of you who replied.
    Erol
    "Les Cargill" <lcargill@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message
    news:3F525B8A.207105A2@worldnet.att.net...
    > ryanm wrote:
    > >
    > > "Les Cargill" <lcargill@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message
    > > news:3F52455C.5F3DACBF@worldnet.att.net...
    > > >
    > > > A set of larger speakers will usually change the load on an amp
    > > > to where it might actually have more headroom. It's not merely louder,
    > > > the larger speakers are usually a little higher compliance at
    > > > frequencies that pinch the response of the amp. As usual,
    > > > it depends.
    > > >
    > > > Any amp with a 1X12 run through a good 2X12 will seem to have more
    > > > dynamic range.
    > > >
    > > > A Bandmaster seemed tighter than a Deluxe, and they have
    > > > approximately the same power section.
    > > >

    > > See, I told you an amp tech type would come by with better info. ; )
    > >
    > > ryanm

    >
    > I'm no amp tech - I think of that as somebody who can diagnose
    > and fix problems quickly. I just drive 'em.
    >
    > There are people on here who really are amp techs. I just plug
    > stuff together until it sounds good.
    >
    > --
    > Les Cargill

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