Choosing Hi-Fi Cart/Stylus

Discussion in 'rec.audio.pro' started by Doughboy, Aug 27, 2003.

  1. Doughboy

    Doughboy Guest

    On Sun, 31 Aug 2003 17:49:12 -0700, "William Sommerwerck"
    <williams@nwlink.com> wrote:

    >James is "spewing" a bit, but he's basically correct.
    >
    >Too many people want to know the "right" product to buy, when they have little
    >or no understanding the differences among various products, and probably
    >wouldn't hear them at all.
    >
    >Sometimes the best thing to do is to buy what you like, and learn from your
    >mistakes.


    I have learnt from my mistakes. I've learnt that I always buy crap,
    and that I should get some good advice before spending my meagre
    amount of spare cash :)

    I don't want to buy a Grado DJ-100, which is probably going to cost a
    fair bit more than a Ortofon DJ E, if my deck (and tonearm) are not
    good enough for my transcriptions to sound noticeably better. I also
    don't want to buy an elliptical stylus, if it's going to be so fiddly
    to setup properly that the earlier mentioned pitfalls detriment my
    recordings to the point where I would have been better off with (a
    cheaper) spherical stylus.

    If forced to make a decision at the moment, I'd probably buy the OM DJ
    S and see what effect that has on my recordings. It's the cheapest of
    the carts I'm considering, but still seems to have good specs, and if
    it's not good enough for recording with, it's still a decent DJ cart.

    I certainly hear quite a substantial difference between running my
    turntable through my Vestax DJ mixer (supposedly good quality), and
    direct into my amp, but I may consider building a dedicated phono
    pre-amp if I feel it's necessary.

    Doughboy
    Doughboy
  2. Doughboy

    Doughboy Guest

    On Sun, 31 Aug 2003 17:03:10 -0700, James Boyk <boyk@caltech.edu>
    wrote:

    >I can't believe this discussion going on & on AND ON about things that surely don't matter! This cartridge is going to be used for ultra-UNcritical stuff, right? THe main property it needs is surely ability to take abuse. Frequency response difference bet

    ween 18k and 20k surely does not matter, right? And yet the discussion is going into audiophile detail. Well, find, if that's what all y'all enjoy.

    I started this discussion by stating that I was looking for a
    cartridge for transcription work. And you've made several posts
    yourself on the subject of 'angles', so you can hardly complain that
    this thread has gone off on an 'audiophile' tangent.

    >Or have I missed the boat? Is a "DJ" application somehow very critical of sound quality?


    Yes, by hours. No.

    >Or am I just too hungry for the Labor-Day BBQ I'll be eating at Dr. Hoagly Woagly's Tyler Texas BBQ (in LA) in two hours?


    Probably. Blood sugar level and all that. Hope you enjoy, I've got the
    flu so it's chicken soup for me :(

    Doughboy
    Doughboy
  3. Doughboy

    Doughboy Guest

    On Sun, 31 Aug 2003 17:46:12 -0700, "William Sommerwerck"
    <williams@nwlink.com> wrote:

    >Why do you want a DJ pickup? Do you intend to back-cue? If not, you have a much
    >wider variety of pickups to choose from.


    I never said I wanted a DJ pickup, but André Huisman said that the
    Ortofon OM-5 and OM Super 10 would be unsuitable for my deck (due to
    it's high mass tone arm) and that my best bet would be the Nightclub
    E. Then I looked at the specs for the Nightclub E and the DJ E, and it
    seemed that the DJ E was actually better, and cheaper, than the
    Nightclub E.

    Now, having read (and not understanding much of) the discussions about
    angles, I'm wondering whether, with my deck and fairly crap arm, I'd
    get better results with a spherical stylus, or whether I'd be able to
    setup an elliptical correctly to benefit from it's improved
    performance, whilst avoiding it's potential pitfalls.

    Scott Dorsey suggested the Grado DJ-100, which is somewhat harder for
    me to find (although perhaps my local hi-fi store will be able to get
    them). This is also elliptical, so the above comments apply to this
    cart as well. From Grado's website, I see it has a freq. response of
    10-50 and a channel separation of 30. (Don't blame me for the poor
    presentation, that's what their website says). These figures are
    obviously better than the OM DJ E, which has a quoted freq. response
    of 20-20000hz +-2db, and channel separation at 1khz of 23db, but
    whether this cart will perform with my deck noticeably better, or even
    as well, as a cheap OM DJ E or DJ S, I don't know.

    Doughboy
    Doughboy
  4. Doughboy

    Doughboy Guest

    On Mon, 01 Sep 2003 03:46:21 GMT, Doughboy <anon@invalid.com> wrote:

    >On Sun, 31 Aug 2003 17:03:10 -0700, James Boyk <boyk@caltech.edu>
    >wrote:
    >
    >>I can't believe this discussion going on & on AND ON about things that surely don't matter! This cartridge is going to be used for ultra-UNcritical stuff, right? THe main property it needs is surely ability to take abuse. Frequency response difference be

    tween 18k and 20k surely does not matter, right? And yet the discussion is going into audiophile detail. Well, find, if that's what all y'all enjoy.
    >
    >I started this discussion by stating that I was looking for a
    >cartridge for transcription work. And you've made several posts
    >yourself on the subject of 'angles', so you can hardly complain that
    >this thread has gone off on an 'audiophile' tangent.
    >
    >>Or have I missed the boat? Is a "DJ" application somehow very critical of sound quality?

    >
    >Yes, by hours. No.
    >
    >>Or am I just too hungry for the Labor-Day BBQ I'll be eating at Dr. Hoagly Woagly's Tyler Texas BBQ (in LA) in two hours?

    >
    >Probably. Blood sugar level and all that. Hope you enjoy, I've got the
    >flu so it's chicken soup for me :(
    >
    >Doughboy
    >Doughboy


    And no you're not seeing double. I just cocked up my auto signature
    thingy :)
    Doughboy
  5. P Stamler

    P Stamler Guest

    >Scott Dorsey suggested the Grado DJ-100, which is somewhat harder for
    >me to find (although perhaps my local hi-fi store will be able to get
    >them). This is also elliptical, so the above comments apply to this
    >cart as well. From Grado's website, I see it has a freq. response of
    >10-50 and a channel separation of 30. (Don't blame me for the poor
    >presentation, that's what their website says). These figures are
    >obviously better than the OM DJ E, which has a quoted freq. response
    >of 20-20000hz +-2db, and channel separation at 1khz of 23db, but
    >whether this cart will perform with my deck noticeably better, or even
    >as well, as a cheap OM DJ E or DJ S, I don't know.


    My suspicion is that the Grado cartridges, all of them, will track the discs
    much better than the OM series will. In the end, that's a gross difference
    while the other stuff is comparatively subtle. Grados are also considerably
    less sensitive to loading than most moving-magnet cartridges.

    Peace,
    Paul
  6. Doughboy

    Doughboy Guest

    On 01 Sep 2003 17:02:49 GMT, pstamler@aol.com (P Stamler) wrote:

    >>Scott Dorsey suggested the Grado DJ-100, which is somewhat harder for
    >>me to find (although perhaps my local hi-fi store will be able to get
    >>them). This is also elliptical, so the above comments apply to this
    >>cart as well. From Grado's website, I see it has a freq. response of
    >>10-50 and a channel separation of 30. (Don't blame me for the poor
    >>presentation, that's what their website says). These figures are
    >>obviously better than the OM DJ E, which has a quoted freq. response
    >>of 20-20000hz +-2db, and channel separation at 1khz of 23db, but
    >>whether this cart will perform with my deck noticeably better, or even
    >>as well, as a cheap OM DJ E or DJ S, I don't know.

    >
    >My suspicion is that the Grado cartridges, all of them, will track the discs
    >much better than the OM series will. In the end, that's a gross difference
    >while the other stuff is comparatively subtle. Grados are also considerably
    >less sensitive to loading than most moving-magnet cartridges.
    >
    >Peace,
    >Paul


    Thanks for the advice. All I need to do now is find somewhere (in the
    UK) that sells the Grado's (particularly the DJ-100 which is the only
    one that's been recommended so far). I can't even find anywhere that
    sells the OM DJ E, and the one stockist I've found that sells the OM 5
    (the aforementioned local hi-fi store) wants £35 for it, which seems a
    bit much when I can get the OM DJ S for £30-35.

    Doughboy


    Doughboy
  7. Arny Krueger

    Arny Krueger Guest

    "P Stamler" <pstamler@aol.com> wrote in message
    news:20030901130249.19898.00000377@mb-m28.aol.com

    >> Scott Dorsey suggested the Grado DJ-100, which is somewhat harder for
    >> me to find (although perhaps my local hi-fi store will be able to get
    >> them). This is also elliptical, so the above comments apply to this
    >> cart as well. From Grado's website, I see it has a freq. response of
    >> 10-50 and a channel separation of 30. (Don't blame me for the poor
    >> presentation, that's what their website says). These figures are
    >> obviously better than the OM DJ E, which has a quoted freq. response
    >> of 20-20000hz +-2db, and channel separation at 1khz of 23db, but
    >> whether this cart will perform with my deck noticeably better, or
    >> even as well, as a cheap OM DJ E or DJ S, I don't know.

    >
    > My suspicion is that the Grado cartridges, all of them, will track
    > the discs much better than the OM series will. In the end, that's a
    > gross difference while the other stuff is comparatively subtle.
    > Grados are also considerably less sensitive to loading than most
    > moving-magnet cartridges.


    Concur. IMO the two cartridge lines to follow in the 21st century are Shure
    and Grado. Grado and Shure both track well, but Shures are better-damped and
    more tolerant of higher-mass and poorly-damped tone arms. Grados are far
    more tolerant of variations in capacitive loading, but if you tweak a Shure
    in with loading caps, it's the flattest thing around in the audible range.
    You pays your money...

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