Entertainment Attorney in Florida?

Discussion in 'rec.audio.pro' started by Nathan Eldred, Aug 12, 2003.

  1. I need an entertainment lawyer (actually 2 total, one to represent me,
    and one for the other party), preferably in Florida if possible.
    Finding these guys are near impossible, most who claim to be EA's
    don't know anything about what's really involved. I've already
    contacted the Florida bar, and every one I've talked to doesn't even
    have a clue what a spec deal is.

    Nathan Eldred
    http://www.atlasproaudio.com
  2. LJM

    LJM Guest

    Try Mark Rutecki in Orlando. He used to handle the entertainment field.
    Here is the url. The phone is 321-559-1022 Hope this helps.
    http://www.attorneylocate.com/scrip...ion=1&cat_id=29&city_id=114&hb=0&aal=1&bk=&bk

    Jim Maxon

    Nathan Eldred wrote:
    > I need an entertainment lawyer (actually 2 total, one to represent me,
    > and one for the other party), preferably in Florida if possible.
    > Finding these guys are near impossible, most who claim to be EA's
    > don't know anything about what's really involved. I've already
    > contacted the Florida bar, and every one I've talked to doesn't even
    > have a clue what a spec deal is.
    >
    > Nathan Eldred
    > http://www.atlasproaudio.com
  3. Mike Caffrey

    Mike Caffrey Guest

    The vast majority of spec deals I've been involved in were better of with
    writing our on agreements. Part is that most don't pan out into anything
    to have worried about. Sometimes it's cheaper to do it yourself even when
    it's the best thing you've ever heard.



    In article <b14184ab.0308121308.231e1539@posting.google.com>,
    atlasproaudio@hotmail.com (Nathan Eldred) wrote:

    > I need an entertainment lawyer (actually 2 total, one to represent me,
    > and one for the other party), preferably in Florida if possible.
    > Finding these guys are near impossible, most who claim to be EA's
    > don't know anything about what's really involved. I've already
    > contacted the Florida bar, and every one I've talked to doesn't even
    > have a clue what a spec deal is.
    >
    > Nathan Eldred
    > http://www.atlasproaudio.com




    www.monsterisland.com
  4. Mike Rivers

    Mike Rivers Guest

    In article <b14184ab.0308121308.231e1539@posting.google.com> atlasproaudio@hotmail.com writes:

    > I've already
    > contacted the Florida bar, and every one I've talked to doesn't even
    > have a clue what a spec deal is.


    Unfortunatly rarely do the parties involved know either. But they
    think they do. Just don't spec to get paid and if you do, be gracious
    and grateful.



    --
    I'm really Mike Rivers - (mrivers@d-and-d.com)
  5. mike@monsterisland.com (Mike Caffrey) wrote in news:mike-1308030206480001
    @mcaff.dialup.access.net:

    > The vast majority of spec deals I've been involved in were better of

    with
    > writing our on agreements. Part is that most don't pan out into

    anything
    > to have worried about. Sometimes it's cheaper to do it yourself even

    when
    > it's the best thing you've ever heard.


    Well as my Dad says on occassion, "he who represents himself has a fool
    for a client." I would think their are a few good EA's in the
    Orlando/Disney area.

    I need to update wills etc. and I will use an attorney, as much as I
    would like not to.

    But like that episode of the Andy Grifith show where Aunt Bee tried to
    get a special deal on a used freezer that never worked right and she
    feels stupid for getting snookered, finally Andy says, "Aunt Bee, just
    pay the man!"

    That said John Knoll is around somewhere and he uses a "standard" spec
    contract of some sort, maybe you can ask him. Of course the time when you
    want the contract to work as planned is when it's needed the most.
  6. Mike Caffrey

    Mike Caffrey Guest

    In article <Xns93D67449D7D98dbluefieldmindspring@207.69.154.205>,
    DavidMackBlauvelt <dbluefieldnospam@mindspring.com> wrote:

    > mike@monsterisland.com (Mike Caffrey) wrote in news:mike-1308030206480001
    > @mcaff.dialup.access.net:
    >
    > > The vast majority of spec deals I've been involved in were better of

    > with
    > > writing our on agreements. Part is that most don't pan out into

    > anything
    > > to have worried about. Sometimes it's cheaper to do it yourself even

    > when
    > > it's the best thing you've ever heard.

    >
    > Well as my Dad says on occassion, "he who represents himself has a fool
    > for a client." I would think their are a few good EA's in the
    > Orlando/Disney area.
    >
    > I need to update wills etc. and I will use an attorney, as much as I
    > would like not to.


    There's a difference between a spec deal and a will. In general, nothing
    ever comes of spec deals, so there's probably no need for the piece of
    paper. With a will on the otherhand, that piece of paper will definitely
    be used some day.

    Rather than spend time an money dividing up zero, do a quick general deal
    and get to work so that you at least have a demo and no hard feelings. A
    simple general agreement is more effective unles you have a track record
    of huge successes. Then maybe you wnat the detailed level of hiring
    attorneys.



    www.monsterisland.com
  7. Fletcher

    Fletcher Guest

    Mike Caffrey wrote:

    >
    >
    > There's a difference between a spec deal and a will. In general, nothing
    > ever comes of spec deals, so there's probably no need for the piece of
    > paper.


    As someone who has had a couple of 'spec' deals actually come in... I can tell
    you from experience that the paper is more than worth the money... by not
    having paper on a spec deal that got signed I probably lost around a nice "S
    class" Mercedes... and I'm not talkin' like a base model S430, I'm talkin'
    closer to an S500.

    The next two 'spec deals' I did I had paper... they lived up to their name and
    I really didn't 'spec' nothing to happen when I walked into them [but they were
    fun projects to do]... the one after that got signed... paid off about half my
    mortgage... but the album was never released so my 'backend' didn't work worth
    a damn.

    Being the dumb fuck I am... if I run into something else I think is worth
    doing... we're gonna have paper to be sure... and I'll 'spec' to have some fun
    making the damn thing... but I'll never 'spec' to make a fuckin' dime off it.

    The long and the short of it is that if you hope for the best and prepare for
    the worst... you're fine. Paper never gets looked at when things are going
    well... but when shit falls apart you have all the definitions of your
    agreement right there in black and white. If the paper is written fairly in
    the beginning then it'll hold up to any legal challenges [from either side]...
    and if the paper is written inequitably than it won't stand up to the challenge
    [and it'll only be challenged if something does indeed go right... and one of
    the parties turns into an asshole, or was an asshole when the paper was
    written].

    Better to spend a couple grand on getting paper done and having everything
    defined before you walk in than risk losing a shit load of money... and if that
    happens... you're also gonna lose a few people from your life you once
    considered friends. The thing about 'spec' deals is that "both sides" feel
    very entitled if it gets signed... the artist(s) feel it's their god given
    talent that they got signed... the person doing the 'spec deal' feels it's
    their visionary genius that got the artist where they are... so they deserve a
    lions share of the money... this too is where shit breaks down. If you write
    the deal fairly in the first place... it can lead to a good long term working
    relationship. If the deal isn't written fairly... the artists will throw you
    under the fucking bus so quickly you'll see the word 'Vanhool' on your forehead
    every time you look in the mirror.

    Paper is cheaper all the way around.
    --
    Fletcher
    Mercenary Audio
    TEL: 508-543-0069
    FAX: 508-543-9670
    http://www.mercenary.com
    "this is not a problem"
  8. axtogrind

    axtogrind Guest

    Amen. As I tell potential clients, you can pay me now (to do it right) or
    pay me a lot more later when it hits the fan. It is what I do all day, so I
    don't really care which you do - but chances are good that YOU will much
    happier if you pay me up front to make it right, rather than paying me to
    clean it up later. Depends on your risk aversion. Gamblers and
    know-it-alls usually pay later.

    This lawyer's two cents...

    atg

    "Fletcher" <Fletcher@mercenary.com> wrote in message
    news:3F3B7510.B2EBBC47@mercenary.com...
    snip

    The long and the short of it is that if you hope for the best and prepare
    for
    the worst... you're fine. Paper never gets looked at when things are going
    well... but when shit falls apart you have all the definitions of your
    agreement right there in black and white.

    snip
  9. Fletcher <Fletcher@mercenary.com> wrote:

    > As someone who has had a couple of 'spec' deals actually come in... I can tell
    > you from experience that the paper is more than worth the money...


    Listen to this, people. Because if you do not do the paperwork to
    support your spec deals you _WILL_ not expect to get paid if you have
    any sense about you. Only with the supporting documents that witness
    agreement will you have the slimmest chance of recouping anything at
    all.

    When product starts to meet success the assholes start to come out of
    their suits, and they will fuck you out of your money unless you have
    the legal backing to lock them into their pants. If you are thinking of
    speculative recording and production work as an item of _business_, then
    you'd damn well better be _businesslike_ about it or you can kiss your
    efforts goodbye.

    --
    hank alrich * secret mountain
    audio recording * music production * sound reinforcement
    "If laughter is the best medicine let's take a double dose"
  10. axtogrind

    axtogrind Guest

    Amen. As I tell potential clients, you can pay me now (to do it right) or
    pay me a lot more later when it hits the fan. It is what I do all day, so I
    don't really care which you do - but chances are good that YOU will much
    happier if you pay me up front to make it right, rather than paying me to
    clean it up later. Depends on your risk aversion. Gamblers and
    know-it-alls usually pay later.

    This lawyer's two cents...

    atg

    "Fletcher" <Fletcher@mercenary.com> wrote in message
    news:3F3B7510.B2EBBC47@mercenary.com...
    > Mike Caffrey wrote:
    >
    > >
    > >
    > > There's a difference between a spec deal and a will. In general, nothing
    > > ever comes of spec deals, so there's probably no need for the piece of
    > > paper.

    >
    > As someone who has had a couple of 'spec' deals actually come in... I can

    tell
    > you from experience that the paper is more than worth the money... by not
    > having paper on a spec deal that got signed I probably lost around a nice

    "S
    > class" Mercedes... and I'm not talkin' like a base model S430, I'm talkin'
    > closer to an S500.
    >
    > The next two 'spec deals' I did I had paper... they lived up to their name

    and
    > I really didn't 'spec' nothing to happen when I walked into them [but they

    were
    > fun projects to do]... the one after that got signed... paid off about

    half my
    > mortgage... but the album was never released so my 'backend' didn't work

    worth
    > a damn.
    >
    > Being the dumb fuck I am... if I run into something else I think is worth
    > doing... we're gonna have paper to be sure... and I'll 'spec' to have some

    fun
    > making the damn thing... but I'll never 'spec' to make a fuckin' dime off

    it.
    >
    > The long and the short of it is that if you hope for the best and prepare

    for
    > the worst... you're fine. Paper never gets looked at when things are

    going
    > well... but when shit falls apart you have all the definitions of your
    > agreement right there in black and white. If the paper is written fairly

    in
    > the beginning then it'll hold up to any legal challenges [from either

    side]...
    > and if the paper is written inequitably than it won't stand up to the

    challenge
    > [and it'll only be challenged if something does indeed go right... and one

    of
    > the parties turns into an asshole, or was an asshole when the paper was
    > written].
    >
    > Better to spend a couple grand on getting paper done and having everything
    > defined before you walk in than risk losing a shit load of money... and if

    that
    > happens... you're also gonna lose a few people from your life you once
    > considered friends. The thing about 'spec' deals is that "both sides"

    feel
    > very entitled if it gets signed... the artist(s) feel it's their god given
    > talent that they got signed... the person doing the 'spec deal' feels it's
    > their visionary genius that got the artist where they are... so they

    deserve a
    > lions share of the money... this too is where shit breaks down. If you

    write
    > the deal fairly in the first place... it can lead to a good long term

    working
    > relationship. If the deal isn't written fairly... the artists will throw

    you
    > under the fucking bus so quickly you'll see the word 'Vanhool' on your

    forehead
    > every time you look in the mirror.
    >
    > Paper is cheaper all the way around.
    > --
    > Fletcher
    > Mercenary Audio
    > TEL: 508-543-0069
    > FAX: 508-543-9670
    > http://www.mercenary.com
    > "this is not a problem"
    >
    >
  11. Thanks everyone for the great advice and contacts. Hopefully this
    will work out, and of course I will cover my butt to the greatest
    extent of the law. If it doesn't go anywhere, at least I have a
    quality calling card that I was able to my way.

    Nathan Eldred
    http://www.atlasproaudio.com


    atlasproaudio@hotmail.com (Nathan Eldred) wrote in message news:<b14184ab.0308121308.231e1539@posting.google.com>...
    > I need an entertainment lawyer (actually 2 total, one to represent me,
    > and one for the other party), preferably in Florida if possible.
    > Finding these guys are near impossible, most who claim to be EA's
    > don't know anything about what's really involved. I've already
    > contacted the Florida bar, and every one I've talked to doesn't even
    > have a clue what a spec deal is.
    >
    > Nathan Eldred
    > http://www.atlasproaudio.com
  12. Mike Caffrey

    Mike Caffrey Guest

    That post was commenting on the likleyhood of a spec deal paperwrok being
    looked at vs a will being looked at. I shoulnd't have said that you don't
    need paper becuase that's not what i meant. In fact I signed a spec deal
    tonight.

    the vast majorit of spec deals don't come through and in most cases is it
    better to come up wth a simple agreemnt that both parties write together
    than to spend the money on lawyers. The fact is mot spec projects can be
    complete in the time it takes the lawyers to negotiate them. At the music
    business entry level it's far more important to focus on the work than the
    business. If you have "it" the money and the lawyers will come when they
    are needed.




    In article <3F3B7510.B2EBBC47@mercenary.com>, Fletcher@mercenary.com wrote:

    > Mike Caffrey wrote:
    >
    > >
    > >
    > > There's a difference between a spec deal and a will. In general, nothing
    > > ever comes of spec deals, so there's probably no need for the piece of
    > > paper.

    >
    > As someone who has had a couple of 'spec' deals actually come in... I can tell
    > you from experience that the paper is more than worth the money... by not
    > having paper on a spec deal that got signed I probably lost around a nice "S
    > class" Mercedes... and I'm not talkin' like a base model S430, I'm talkin'
    > closer to an S500.
    >
    > The next two 'spec deals' I did I had paper... they lived up to their name and
    > I really didn't 'spec' nothing to happen when I walked into them [but

    they were
    > fun projects to do]... the one after that got signed... paid off about half my
    > mortgage... but the album was never released so my 'backend' didn't work worth
    > a damn.
    >
    > Being the dumb fuck I am... if I run into something else I think is worth
    > doing... we're gonna have paper to be sure... and I'll 'spec' to have some fun
    > making the damn thing... but I'll never 'spec' to make a fuckin' dime off it.
    >
    > The long and the short of it is that if you hope for the best and prepare for
    > the worst... you're fine. Paper never gets looked at when things are going
    > well... but when shit falls apart you have all the definitions of your
    > agreement right there in black and white. If the paper is written fairly in
    > the beginning then it'll hold up to any legal challenges [from either side]...
    > and if the paper is written inequitably than it won't stand up to the

    challenge
    > [and it'll only be challenged if something does indeed go right... and one of
    > the parties turns into an asshole, or was an asshole when the paper was
    > written].
    >
    > Better to spend a couple grand on getting paper done and having everything
    > defined before you walk in than risk losing a shit load of money... and

    if that
    > happens... you're also gonna lose a few people from your life you once
    > considered friends. The thing about 'spec' deals is that "both sides" feel
    > very entitled if it gets signed... the artist(s) feel it's their god given
    > talent that they got signed... the person doing the 'spec deal' feels it's
    > their visionary genius that got the artist where they are... so they deserve a
    > lions share of the money... this too is where shit breaks down. If you write
    > the deal fairly in the first place... it can lead to a good long term working
    > relationship. If the deal isn't written fairly... the artists will throw you
    > under the fucking bus so quickly you'll see the word 'Vanhool' on your

    forehead
    > every time you look in the mirror.
    >
    > Paper is cheaper all the way around.
    > --
    > Fletcher
    > Mercenary Audio
    > TEL: 508-543-0069
    > FAX: 508-543-9670
    > http://www.mercenary.com
    > "this is not a problem"




    www.monsterisland.com
  13. Mike Rivers

    Mike Rivers Guest

    In article <mike-1708032120040001@mcaff.dialup.access.net> mike@monsterisland.com writes:

    > The fact is mot spec projects can be
    > complete in the time it takes the lawyers to negotiate them. At the music
    > business entry level it's far more important to focus on the work than the
    > business. If you have "it" the money and the lawyers will come when they
    > are needed.


    That's good practical advice, but everyone who takes on any project,
    spec or paid-in-full is always hoping for that big break. Unless
    the music is so bad that you really don't want to record it but it's a
    very good friend of a very good friend, unless you're an experienced
    producer, you really can't tell that before you start the project.

    Anyone who worked for free would be bitter to find that their
    recording made a pile of money for the act and none of it came back to
    the studio because "we didn't agree to pay you anything." So that's
    why you have an agreement. If it's written, at least you have a chance
    of taking it to court if you want to do that. Othewise, it's not worth
    the paper it's not written on.



    --
    I'm really Mike Rivers - (mrivers@d-and-d.com)
  14. Mike Caffrey

    Mike Caffrey Guest

    In article <znr1061204612k@trad>, mrivers@d-and-d.com wrote:

    > In article <mike-1708032120040001@mcaff.dialup.access.net>

    mike@monsterisland.com writes:
    >
    > > The fact is mot spec projects can be
    > > complete in the time it takes the lawyers to negotiate them. At the music
    > > business entry level it's far more important to focus on the work than the
    > > business. If you have "it" the money and the lawyers will come when they
    > > are needed.

    >
    > That's good practical advice, but everyone who takes on any project,
    > spec or paid-in-full is always hoping for that big break. Unless
    > the music is so bad that you really don't want to record it but it's a
    > very good friend of a very good friend, unless you're an experienced
    > producer, you really can't tell that before you start the project.
    >
    > Anyone who worked for free would be bitter to find that their
    > recording made a pile of money for the act and none of it came back to
    > the studio because "we didn't agree to pay you anything." So that's
    > why you have an agreement. If it's written, at least you have a chance
    > of taking it to court if you want to do that. Othewise, it's not worth
    > the paper it's not written on.


    I agree. I think at the beginning and intermediate and even a little
    beyond the $750-1,000 (x2) spent on lawyers (for both sides) would be
    better spent on other things - taking off extra time from day jobs for
    recording, gear purcahses, gear rentals for the session. There are simple
    deals that can be done in 2-4 sentences that allow you to not get bogged
    down in detailed negotiations and strain relationships before tracking.

    sometiems 4 sentences is not enough, but at that point it's becuase there
    is real money involved and you can use that moeny to pay for a rela
    entertainment lawyer when you need one.



    www.monsterisland.com

Share This Page