hate filling midi requests?

Discussion in 'General Sequencing' started by dshinka, Dec 31, 2003.

  1. kim_eh

    kim_eh Gratified

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    I can't sequence to save my life. I can't play, I just sing! :D
  2. tammy

    tammy New Member

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    no come on guys. i am serious. be simpler.
    how do i start. how can i press the mouse button. what programme do i use.
    step by step explain so i can make my own midis.
    come on.
    so lets say i start with imagine.
    i play the cd. get the tune in my head.
    what next?
    use the computer and mouse with what?????
    t
  3. voice of god

    voice of god Prodigal Pyjamas Pervert Staff Member Super Mod

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    get a midi editing program

    I use logic Audio. Everyone uses different ones.

    Tell us what one u have and we'll go from there.

    Do u have one?
  4. ZelRiptha

    ZelRiptha Thnow White but I drifted Staff Member Super Mod

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    1. You've got Cakewalk, so bring it up and open the staff view, or the piano roll view, whichever you're more comfortable using to input notes. (I prefer the staff view.) Set it up where you're working on a new, blank file. Set up the instruments you'll think you need (for Imagine, you'd start with piano, and something melodic for the vocals). Save the empty file as Imagine.mid, or whatever you'd like to call it.

    2. Listen to the tune. This part depends a little bit on you. I listen to 5-10 seconds at a time, then do entry, listen again for nuances, then correct. This is an iterative (extremely iterative, sometimes) process, so be patient. If your ears and memory are good, you could do much longer stretches at a time before you relisten and correct. The first time you do this, you may have trouble finding the notes. Is the first note a C or a D? Is the chord voicing first or second inversion? This depends on how good your musical ears are. The theory is only important if it helps you. If you don't know theory (harmony, etc.) don't worry. You'll just have to trust your ears more, and less of the work will seem "automatic". Do this iteration until you've got the first 10 seconds down pat. Be pleased with your intermediate success.

    3. Repeat #2 over and over as you progress through the song. It might help if you do this by instrument in more complicated songs. For example, lay down only the drum or bass track for 24 bars, get it right, then put in rhythm guitar, lead, and vocals. I tend to lay down the bass line as it helps me establish the harmonic progressions in the song which makes it easier for me to follow with the other instruments.

    4. Patience is important. This is a bit like making an oil painting. You can correct and correct for as long as you like, until it's just the way you want it. Or you can stop and be satisfied with a rougher product.

    If you need specific help with how to use Cakewalk, post again or PM me. I'll see what I can do.

    BTW, here's an example of how I helped a guy improve his MIDI. It was only a one step iteration since I finished the file, but it shows how a MIDI can be improved.

    http://board.midibuddy.net/t92313.html

    Edit: Here's another example of improving a MIDI.
    http://board.midibuddy.net/t85961.html
    Last edited: Oct 21, 2004
  5. jeaniesing

    jeaniesing Super Moderator Staff Member Super Mod

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    I start with the bass line Tammy... I do, generally, a section at a time... My advice is to start with an easy ballad because things go by more slowly...
    •listen to a section...
    •be able to sing the pitches in your head...
    •On the top menu "View," New," Staff" (be warned I have an old version it might have changed slightly
    •choose the little pencil Icon and drag a note-value (like a quarter note or whatever you believe it to be) onto the staff... you should be able to hear that note to place it on the right pitch... don't worry if its in the wrong octave you can change that later (through "edit," "transpose"... -12 is an octave down)

    You can do the whole song in a similar manner... maybe before you do big thing let us hear a little "London Bridge" or "Kookaburra" to test your early skills ;)
  6. Graeme

    Graeme New Member

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    I can't agree with the 'dragging notes around' approach - this is a really crude way to compose using midi and is more likely to put off a beginner than encourage them.

    Anyone with a musical ear - and anyone without a musical ear shouldn't be playing with midi in the first place, it is, after all, a musicians tool - can pick out notes on a keyboard... and that's the most efficient way to do it. Buy a cheap midi keyboard controller (and there are some really cheap ones around) connect it up to your sequencer of choice and just pick out the notes on the keyboard. This is far more intuitive than dragging notes on a score or piano roll editor. If you get the odd one wrong, then it can be corrected later using these techniques.

    There's a common misconception that you have to be able to play keys to work in midi - nothing is further from the truth. I'm a lousy keyboard player, but using a sequencer allows me to sound as though it's my primary instrument.

    Another advantage is, as with any other instrument, the more you play it, the better you get and the quicker the whole process becomes.

    Remember, a midi sequencer is the musical equivalent of the word processor - you throw it all down and sort out the parts at your leisure.
  7. tammy

    tammy New Member

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    ok
    now i got cha.
    i knew it was too good too be true.
    i have tried working with cakewalk, and havent managed to figure basic things out.
    for eg. making simple crotchet notes, and then a semiquaver rest etc etc.
    i am a total beginner....
    oh well back to the drawing board.
    i would love lessons on cakewalk.
    the manuel is greek to me!
    i need to start at page one and learn new words like arm clone huh?) console etc.
    no idea what they mean...
    i will have to wait till my son is married (he is 4 now) before i get a change to figure that lot out....
    sigh.
    but zel... i might take your offer up if i get a chance to work on midi and get stuck!
    thanks

    hmmmm
    how about a thread.
    walking through cakewalk. a beginners guide to making midis..
    hmmmmm.
    how about it anyone???
    i would sign up.
    t

    t
  8. jeaniesing

    jeaniesing Super Moderator Staff Member Super Mod

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    Oh I agree Graeme... but tammy specified that she has a computer and a mouse!

    Purchasing an inexpensive MIDI keyboard will ease the process without fail. I, too, am an embarassingly poor pianist (my skill in typing vaguely surpassing my piano abilities for those who have chatted with me when I don't take the time to edit :rolleyes: ). but you cannot ignore the beauty of Zel's keyboard-less works!
  9. tammy

    tammy New Member

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    huh
    just because i have a keyboard. casio ctk 811 ex, still doesnt mean i can use it to make midis....
    sigh.....
    my solution.
    come on.
    learn to sequence at midibuddy, or ...
    someone come visit s.a. for a year and teach me in between your working holiday!!!
    t
  10. voice of god

    voice of god Prodigal Pyjamas Pervert Staff Member Super Mod

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    Tammy, I sequence my midis with my computer and the mouse.

    All u need is a midi editing program.

    If you download a version of Logic Audio (from k@z@@ if u dare) I can walk u thru it step by step.

    Zel said u already hav cakewalk is this correct?
  11. tammy

    tammy New Member

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    yes i do have cakewalk.
    does one get viruses from logic audio? is that the risk?
    t
  12. voice of god

    voice of god Prodigal Pyjamas Pervert Staff Member Super Mod

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    no viruses from logic audio, but u may get viruses from K@z@@(so they say)

    but since u have cakewalk just use it

    heres how I do it

    - open cakewalk
    - create a bass track by click and drag with the pencil tool(have a look its got to be somewhere on the left) (just click and holdnext to where it say fingered bass(maybe channel 2) then dragto the right so u create a block)
    - click on the bass track(block) then open or view - piano roll
    - in the piano roll is a keyboard on the left of screen that corresponds to notes(that you will create
    - create notes by using the pencil tool

    maybe do this first actually
    -open cakewalk
    -open or inport a midi file that u like
    click on the bass track so u highlight it
    - then file open or view PIANO ROLL
    -check out what happens in the piano roll, play the file to see if u can get an idea of whats happening
    -delete some of the notes and change,create some, just play around


    then try and create your own as above

    hope that made sense
  13. voice of god

    voice of god Prodigal Pyjamas Pervert Staff Member Super Mod

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    the PIANO ROLL is where u create midis with ur mouse (try it)
  14. CyberCat

    CyberCat Active Member

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    Interesting thought only problem is that most people are too lazy to do it themselves or they don't have the right hardware/software.
  15. tammy

    tammy New Member

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    i think i know where i was going wrong. i tried to create the notes in the stave. took me ages just to do a few notes.
    ok gotta give this a try.
    give me a year! get ready for the next question!
    t
  16. voice of god

    voice of god Prodigal Pyjamas Pervert Staff Member Super Mod

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    yeah, pinao roll is the go, ur on a winner now

    let us know how u go, what song do u want to do?
  17. tammy

    tammy New Member

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    hmm not sure yet.
    let me think.
    i might start with kiddie songs just to see how it works.
    something like mulberry bush or i'm a little teapot. i sing at a kiddies school, so this would be a good place to start. then instead of playing it on guitar i could use my midis.. wow...
    sounds promising.
    t
  18. voice of god

    voice of god Prodigal Pyjamas Pervert Staff Member Super Mod

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    why dont you do a simple bass track(if you know the guitar chords it makes it easy) and a very simple drum track(once u do one bar you can just copy and paste)

    then you have yourself a backing track, so you PLAY ALONG with it with your guitar and, viola! the kids go wild!:)
  19. charbach007

    charbach007 New Member

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    Hmm....interesting idea. I don't fill requests anyways so we'll see
  20. tomaweg

    tomaweg New Member

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    wow other people know what its like not being able to find midis! i thought i was alone there!

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