Hired Gun Dilemma

Discussion in 'rec.music.percussion' started by JWald, Aug 20, 2003.

  1. JWald

    JWald Guest

    What would you do?
    You are hired as a 2 to 6 mos. replacement for a drummer, who for reasons
    that don't matter, wanted/needed time off. You play 3 or 4 jobs and are told
    that the next gig was booked by the drummer prior to going on hiatus, and
    will pay twice the bands normal rate; btw, he might be there.
    Then you receive notice that he WILL be there, because he is going to play
    the gig. Are you the slightest bit upset?
    --
    jwald

    "Leave the gun. Take the cannoli."
    Clemenza - Godfather I
  2. ramalane

    ramalane Guest

    "JWald" <d_player@gallatinriver.net> wrote in message
    news:bhuh0p010e5@enews1.newsguy.com...
    : What would you do?
    : You are hired as a 2 to 6 mos. replacement for a drummer, who for reasons
    : that don't matter, wanted/needed time off. You play 3 or 4 jobs and are
    told
    : that the next gig was booked by the drummer prior to going on hiatus, and
    : will pay twice the bands normal rate; btw, he might be there.
    : Then you receive notice that he WILL be there, because he is going to play
    : the gig. Are you the slightest bit upset?

    Maybe slightly (assuming I'm not getting paid anything instead of double).
    But it's my guess that this gig is personal to the drummer since he booked
    it and want to play it. I can see it from his point of view. I took off
    some time 5 years ago to concentrate on business and they hired another
    drummer. Keep in mind that I had actually quit and then rejoined the band a
    year later. But while they had another drummer, I was in a position where I
    hired the band for a festival and since we used their PA for all of the
    bands on that stage I paid them for that as well. I didn't insist on
    playing the gig even though I would've liked to. But I was the promoter and
    it would've been unfair for me to make that request. Like I said, these
    guys are good, good friends of mine and later asked me to rejoin them.
    So should you be upset? I can't see why you should myself.

    /ramalane

    --
    "There is a plethora of collective knowledge and experience in here,
    from drummers and drum builders. So jump in and enjoy the party.
    Just don't piss in the water. :) " -MIKE-
  3. JWald

    JWald Guest

    I don't see your point in your story. You start by saying yes (although
    slightly), then change to no. You quit your band. You had NO rights. This
    guy is on hiatus, and evidently has a personal interest in the job, and that
    interest sounds a bunch like MONEY. If he would of said he would be
    available from time to time, or I was told there would be a
    frequent/infrequent return of the drummer, or told from the start that
    ANYTHING along these lines were possible, I wouldn't have a bitch. I just
    think that if a guy is *unavailable* for a self determined amount of time,
    then he should go sit down somewhere and let the guy replacing him make the
    money for the jobs he took himself out of regardless of who booked them; or
    go back to the band.



    "ramalane" <ramalane@ramalaneTINR.com> wrote in message
    news:M1A0b.1059$Hf.325@fe03.atl2.webusenet.com...
    >
    > "JWald" <d_player@gallatinriver.net> wrote in message
    > news:bhuh0p010e5@enews1.newsguy.com...
    > : What would you do?
    > : You are hired as a 2 to 6 mos. replacement for a drummer, who for

    reasons
    > : that don't matter, wanted/needed time off. You play 3 or 4 jobs and are
    > told
    > : that the next gig was booked by the drummer prior to going on hiatus,

    and
    > : will pay twice the bands normal rate; btw, he might be there.
    > : Then you receive notice that he WILL be there, because he is going to

    play
    > : the gig. Are you the slightest bit upset?
    >
    > Maybe slightly (assuming I'm not getting paid anything instead of double).
    > But it's my guess that this gig is personal to the drummer since he booked
    > it and want to play it. I can see it from his point of view. I took off
    > some time 5 years ago to concentrate on business and they hired another
    > drummer. Keep in mind that I had actually quit and then rejoined the band

    a
    > year later. But while they had another drummer, I was in a position where

    I
    > hired the band for a festival and since we used their PA for all of the
    > bands on that stage I paid them for that as well. I didn't insist on
    > playing the gig even though I would've liked to. But I was the promoter

    and
    > it would've been unfair for me to make that request. Like I said, these
    > guys are good, good friends of mine and later asked me to rejoin them.
    > So should you be upset? I can't see why you should myself.
    >
    > /ramalane
    >
    > --
    > "There is a plethora of collective knowledge and experience in here,
    > from drummers and drum builders. So jump in and enjoy the party.
    > Just don't piss in the water. :) " -MIKE-
    >
    >
    >
    >
  4. ramalane

    ramalane Guest

    "JWald" <d_player@gallatinriver.net> wrote in message
    news:bhulrc01779@enews1.newsguy.com...
    : I don't see your point in your story. You start by saying yes (although
    : slightly), then change to no. You quit your band. You had NO rights. This
    : guy is on hiatus, and evidently has a personal interest in the job, and
    that
    : interest sounds a bunch like MONEY. If he would of said he would be
    : available from time to time, or I was told there would be a
    : frequent/infrequent return of the drummer, or told from the start that
    : ANYTHING along these lines were possible, I wouldn't have a bitch. I just
    : think that if a guy is *unavailable* for a self determined amount of time,
    : then he should go sit down somewhere and let the guy replacing him make
    the
    : money for the jobs he took himself out of regardless of who booked them;
    or
    : go back to the band.

    You described yourself as a hired gun as opposed to being a band member.
    You walked into this thing knowing that you had NO rights. I left on good
    terms, even hired the band with their new drummer, and then returned a year
    later at their request. Be pissed about not getting paid, sure! But don't
    whine about it. The band that hired you already has a drummer...you're just
    a pick up player to them.

    /ramalane

    --
    Church of the Swimming Elephant
    http://www.cotse.com
    Have you been to church today?
  5. -sTu-

    -sTu- Guest

    As long as you get paid no. Not paid then yes, I would be upset. Though if
    you knew that the old drummer (before your hiring) was going to play some
    gigs, then there is no reason to get upset.

    Hope that made sense....

    --
    -sTu-

    ....and I'll never go to Sacramento again.
    - Nick (Soulbelly) of RMMP

    "JWald" <d_player@gallatinriver.net> wrote in message
    news:bhuh0p010e5@enews1.newsguy.com...
    > What would you do?
    > You are hired as a 2 to 6 mos. replacement for a drummer, who for reasons
    > that don't matter, wanted/needed time off. You play 3 or 4 jobs and are

    told
    > that the next gig was booked by the drummer prior to going on hiatus, and
    > will pay twice the bands normal rate; btw, he might be there.
    > Then you receive notice that he WILL be there, because he is going to play
    > the gig. Are you the slightest bit upset?
    > --
    > jwald
    >
    > "Leave the gun. Take the cannoli."
    > Clemenza - Godfather I
    >
    >
  6. "JWald" <d_player@gallatinriver.net> wrote in message
    news:bhuh0p010e5@enews1.newsguy.com...
    > What would you do?
    > You are hired as a 2 to 6 mos. replacement for a drummer, who for reasons
    > that don't matter, wanted/needed time off. You play 3 or 4 jobs and are

    told
    > that the next gig was booked by the drummer prior to going on hiatus, and
    > will pay twice the bands normal rate; btw, he might be there.



    Did they tell you ahead of time all the gigs were yours? Did they tell you
    he might play some gigs? Did they give you a schedule and say all these you
    will be playing? If so, they have an obligation for your were counting on
    this gig. You may have had to turn down another gig to be available for this
    one gig. I'd say they should pay you.

    PP
  7. JWald <d_player@gallatinriver.net> wrote:
    > What would you do?
    > You are hired as a 2 to 6 mos. replacement for a drummer, who for reasons
    > that don't matter, wanted/needed time off. You play 3 or 4 jobs and are told
    > that the next gig was booked by the drummer prior to going on hiatus, and
    > will pay twice the bands normal rate; btw, he might be there.
    > Then you receive notice that he WILL be there, because he is going to play
    > the gig. Are you the slightest bit upset?


    There is a HUGE difference between "sideman" and bandmember.
    You are just a pick-up player and therefore play at their
    discretion. An exception would be if somehow they had led
    you believe that you'd have some guaranteed number of
    gigs, but without that, it could be WAY worse than
    simply the old drummer skimming cream off the high
    pay gig. They could for example suddenly decide to
    try out another "replacement" drummer or maybe even
    three. You just get the gigs they say you can play.
    Should you be upset? Depends. It's all about how
    they tell you. If they just come to and say, hey,
    we will be trying another drummer, you only
    play dates so and so and so. Ok. You are casual.
    They are the boss. You say fine and do it. If
    they told you hey, we need a replacement for such
    and such a time and you'll be playing X gigs, and
    then pull the rug, you can be pissed because they
    weren't honest about the gig.

    Being professional means that they are up front
    with their needs and you honestly try to fill
    their needs without making it into a personal thing.

    If it were me, I'd not think twice about the loss
    of one skimmed gig. But if suddenly ALL the high
    pay gigs need the old drummer, I'd start raising
    questions because now in effect they had promised
    one price and by pulling me off the high end gigs they
    are cutting my pay. I still might keep it up, but
    I'd have to evaluate IF the "new" lower pay was
    sufficient. If not, I'd cease to be "available".
    But in any case it should never become a personal
    personality thing.

    Benj
    --
    SPAM-Guard! Remove .users (if present) to email me!
  8. -MIKE-

    -MIKE- Guest

    >> What would you do?
    >> You are hired as a 2 to 6 mos. replacement for a drummer, who for reasons
    >> that don't matter, wanted/needed time off. You play 3 or 4 jobs and are
    >> told that the next gig was booked by the drummer prior to going on
    >> hiatus, and will pay twice the bands normal rate; btw, he might be there.

    >
    >
    > Did they tell you ahead of time all the gigs were yours? Did they tell you
    > he might play some gigs? Did they give you a schedule and say all these
    > you will be playing? If so, they have an obligation for your were counting
    > on this gig. You may have had to turn down another gig to be available for
    > this one gig. I'd say they should pay you.
    >
    > PP
    >
    >



    I agree. It's all about up front communication-- which is the
    exception, not the rule. You've learned a lesson. If you don't ask
    these things up front, they won't tell you. There's a good chance
    they knew this, when they hired you, but withheld info they felt
    would turn you off. That's bush league, but it happens.

    You're a hired gun and there's no contract for X dollars for X gigs
    on X dates. So they have the option of dumping you for whatever,
    whenever. This also puts you in the wonderful position of telling
    them to stick it and walking away.


    Happens in Nashville all the time.....

    "Yeah, we're working on getting a tour bus."
    "Oh, so we'll have one for this tour?"
    "Well we're working on it."
    "Oh. How long you been working on it?"
    "About three years."

    "And about rooms? We all get our own hotel rooms?"
    "We get hotel rooms, yeah."
    "Right, but do we get our own?"
    "We get enough for everybody."
    "Right. Does each person get a separate room?"
    "Not always. Sometimes we have to share."
    "Right. Rooms or beds?"

    "Ummm, about expenses."


    Bottom line..... Is this a bridge you're willing to die on?


    -MIKE-

    --
    http://mikedrums.com
    mike@mikedrumsDOT.com
    ---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply
  9. Alan Watkins

    Alan Watkins Guest

    All musicians are hired guns, even those who think they are in a
    band/orchestra/whatever.

    When the phone rings you say yes or no. It is your call.

    Kind regards,
    Alan M. Watkins
  10. ramalane

    ramalane Guest

    "Alan Watkins" <alanwatkinsuk@aol.com> wrote in message
    news:62c8649c.0308201359.7c21731d@posting.google.com...
    : All musicians are hired guns, even those who think they are in a
    : band/orchestra/whatever.
    :
    : When the phone rings you say yes or no. It is your call.

    I would flame you that would be tantamount to bullying the village idiot.

    /ramalane

    --
    "God is dead" - Friedrich Nietzsche

    "Nietzsche is dead" - God
  11. JWald

    JWald Guest

    What they told me was that the drummer was unavailable for 2/6 mos. for
    personal reasons. Never any mention that he might drop in. I don't know if
    they knew, but they don't seem upset by it because he booked the job prior
    to leaving. I was told today to take what I can get and have fun. I am now
    wondering that as the holiday season approaches he may decide that a little
    extra money would be helpful and request a few jobs. How would I ever know?
    The xmas parties are good $ and I don't want to lose any of it. My bitch is
    the fact that I was told this guy was out for awhile and I was looking
    forward to the gig. Now I don't know if the guy is in or out.
    "Pete Pemberton" <bfpemberton@fuse.net> wrote in message
    news:3f42eeb1$0$12625$a0465688@nnrp.fuse.net...
    >
    > "JWald" <d_player@gallatinriver.net> wrote in message
    > news:bhuh0p010e5@enews1.newsguy.com...
    > > What would you do?
    > > You are hired as a 2 to 6 mos. replacement for a drummer, who for

    reasons
    > > that don't matter, wanted/needed time off. You play 3 or 4 jobs and are

    > told
    > > that the next gig was booked by the drummer prior to going on hiatus,

    and
    > > will pay twice the bands normal rate; btw, he might be there.

    >
    >
    > Did they tell you ahead of time all the gigs were yours? Did they tell you
    > he might play some gigs? Did they give you a schedule and say all these

    you
    > will be playing? If so, they have an obligation for your were counting on
    > this gig. You may have had to turn down another gig to be available for

    this
    > one gig. I'd say they should pay you.
    >
    > PP
    >
    >
  12. Glenn Dowdy

    Glenn Dowdy Guest

    "ramalane" <ramalane@ramalaneTINR.com> wrote in message
    news:7cS0b.581$o9.75@fe03.atl2.webusenet.com...
    >
    > "Alan Watkins" <alanwatkinsuk@aol.com> wrote in message
    > news:62c8649c.0308201359.7c21731d@posting.google.com...
    > : All musicians are hired guns, even those who think they are in a
    > : band/orchestra/whatever.
    > :
    > : When the phone rings you say yes or no. It is your call.
    >
    > I would flame you that would be tantamount to bullying the village idiot.
    >

    More like the wise old man on top of the mountain. You should google on
    Alan.

    Glenn D.
  13. JWald

    JWald Guest

    <bjacoby@users.iwaynet.net> wrote in message
    news:bhuri6$q0k$1@tribune.oar.net...
    > There is a HUGE difference between "sideman" and bandmember.
    > You are just a pick-up player and therefore play at their
    > discretion. An exception would be if somehow they had led
    > you believe that you'd have some guaranteed number of
    > gigs, but without that, it could be WAY worse than
    > simply the old drummer skimming cream off the high
    > pay gig.


    I was told that they needed A drummer to fill in for the unavailable; 2/6
    mos.
    I take that to mean they needed 1 drummer.



    They could for example suddenly decide to
    > try out another "replacement" drummer or maybe even
    > three. You just get the gigs they say you can play.
    > Should you be upset? Depends. It's all about how
    > they tell you. If they just come to and say, hey,
    > we will be trying another drummer, you only
    > play dates so and so and so. Ok. You are casual.


    If they had, or do say they are looking for another that is fine. They came
    looking for me, I suppose they can look somemore if they want. At least I
    would know the deal.


    > They are the boss. You say fine and do it. If
    > they told you hey, we need a replacement for such
    > and such a time and you'll be playing X gigs, and
    > then pull the rug, you can be pissed because they
    > weren't honest about the gig.


    I feel this is exactly what was done. A specific number of gigs wasn't
    mention because they are just starting to book. Never was the notion of
    sporactic gigs mentioned.
    >
    > Being professional means that they are up front
    > with their needs and you honestly try to fill
    > their needs without making it into a personal thing.
    >
    > If it were me, I'd not think twice about the loss
    > of one skimmed gig. But if suddenly ALL the high
    > pay gigs need the old drummer, I'd start raising
    > questions because now in effect they had promised
    > one price and by pulling me off the high end gigs they
    > are cutting my pay. I still might keep it up, but
    > I'd have to evaluate IF the "new" lower pay was
    > sufficient. If not, I'd cease to be "available".
    > But in any case it should never become a personal
    > personality thing.



    I suppose I should also mention the second singer/guitar player situation.
    He played with this bunch in their last configuration as a freebie. He
    walked in 5 mins. to show time, sing 2 sets, walked out. Never asked for a
    dime; just the experience. This time around they liked the idea again except
    that he thinks he's part of the band and would like to be paid something.
    What he doesn't know is that these guys are going to ace him out of A BUNCH
    of upcoming gigs. He can sing for free but they aren't going to pay him
    squat. I'm thinking I'm in a same but different boat.


    >
    > Benj
    > --
    > SPAM-Guard! Remove .users (if present) to email me!
  14. nick amoroso

    nick amoroso Guest

    >: When the phone rings you say yes or no. It is your call.
    >
    >I would flame you that would be tantamount to bullying the village idiot.
    >
    >/ramalane


    you couldn't be more incorrect on alan.

    peace,
    :nick amoroso:
    professional drums and instruction
    proud endorser of silver fox drumsticks
    -----
    "punching stuff rules" ~ dan radin
    "click click bloody click pancakes!" ~ stewie
  15. ramalane

    ramalane Guest

    "Glenn Dowdy" <glenn.dowdy@nospam.com> wrote in message
    news:%wS0b.2929$z_4.2352@news.cpqcorp.net...
    :
    : "ramalane" <ramalane@ramalaneTINR.com> wrote in message
    : news:7cS0b.581$o9.75@fe03.atl2.webusenet.com...
    : >
    : > "Alan Watkins" <alanwatkinsuk@aol.com> wrote in message
    : > news:62c8649c.0308201359.7c21731d@posting.google.com...
    : > : All musicians are hired guns, even those who think they are in a
    : > : band/orchestra/whatever.
    : > :
    : > : When the phone rings you say yes or no. It is your call.
    : >
    : > I would flame you that would be tantamount to bullying the village
    idiot.
    : >
    : More like the wise old man on top of the mountain. You should google on
    : Alan.

    I'm not going to bother. IMHO anyone who makes a vague generalization like
    that didn't think it through before posting. All musicians are hired guns?
    The same could be said about anyone in any profession, no? And pretentious
    philosophical statements bore me to tears.

    And please keep in mind that I am behaving myself. Google indeed!
    Pffft!

    /ramalane

    --
    "An Opasson hath an head like a Swine, and a taile like a Rat, and is of the
    bignes of a Cat. Under her belly she hath a bagge, wherein she lodgeth,
    carrieth, and sucketh her young." - Captain John Smith, 1608
  16. ramalane

    ramalane Guest

    "JWald" <d_player@gallatinriver.net> wrote in message
    news:bi0t2s01qdg@enews1.newsguy.com...
    :
    : <bjacoby@users.iwaynet.net> wrote in message
    : news:bhuri6$q0k$1@tribune.oar.net...
    : > There is a HUGE difference between "sideman" and bandmember.
    : > You are just a pick-up player and therefore play at their
    : > discretion. An exception would be if somehow they had led
    : > you believe that you'd have some guaranteed number of
    : > gigs, but without that, it could be WAY worse than
    : > simply the old drummer skimming cream off the high
    : > pay gig.
    :
    : I was told that they needed A drummer to fill in for the unavailable; 2/6
    : mos.
    : I take that to mean they needed 1 drummer.
    :
    :
    :
    : They could for example suddenly decide to
    : > try out another "replacement" drummer or maybe even
    : > three. You just get the gigs they say you can play.
    : > Should you be upset? Depends. It's all about how
    : > they tell you. If they just come to and say, hey,
    : > we will be trying another drummer, you only
    : > play dates so and so and so. Ok. You are casual.
    :
    : If they had, or do say they are looking for another that is fine. They
    came
    : looking for me, I suppose they can look somemore if they want. At least I
    : would know the deal.
    :
    :
    : > They are the boss. You say fine and do it. If
    : > they told you hey, we need a replacement for such
    : > and such a time and you'll be playing X gigs, and
    : > then pull the rug, you can be pissed because they
    : > weren't honest about the gig.
    :
    : I feel this is exactly what was done. A specific number of gigs wasn't
    : mention because they are just starting to book. Never was the notion of
    : sporactic gigs mentioned.
    : >
    : > Being professional means that they are up front
    : > with their needs and you honestly try to fill
    : > their needs without making it into a personal thing.
    : >
    : > If it were me, I'd not think twice about the loss
    : > of one skimmed gig. But if suddenly ALL the high
    : > pay gigs need the old drummer, I'd start raising
    : > questions because now in effect they had promised
    : > one price and by pulling me off the high end gigs they
    : > are cutting my pay. I still might keep it up, but
    : > I'd have to evaluate IF the "new" lower pay was
    : > sufficient. If not, I'd cease to be "available".
    : > But in any case it should never become a personal
    : > personality thing.
    :
    :
    : I suppose I should also mention the second singer/guitar player situation.
    : He played with this bunch in their last configuration as a freebie. He
    : walked in 5 mins. to show time, sing 2 sets, walked out. Never asked for a
    : dime; just the experience. This time around they liked the idea again
    except
    : that he thinks he's part of the band and would like to be paid something.
    : What he doesn't know is that these guys are going to ace him out of A
    BUNCH
    : of upcoming gigs. He can sing for free but they aren't going to pay him
    : squat. I'm thinking I'm in a same but different boat.

    Same boat, you're flotsam and he's jetsum. LOL! (J/K)
    I'd mention my concern to the leader of the band (there's always one guy who
    keeps things together). He probably hasn't thought about your situation;
    he's too busy trying to keep the boat afloat. :eek:)

    /ramalane

    P.S. Tell him that you need to know about New Years Eve. You need a
    commitment for that night if for no other.

    --
    Church of the Swimming Elephant
    http://www.cotse.com
    Have you been to church today?
  17. ramalane

    ramalane Guest

    "nick amoroso" <soulbelly@aol.comICAL> wrote in message
    news:20030820194413.07508.00000316@mb-m25.aol.com...
    : >: When the phone rings you say yes or no. It is your call.
    : >
    : >I would flame you that would be tantamount to bullying the village idiot.
    : >
    : >/ramalane
    :
    : you couldn't be more incorrect on alan.

    I believe you. But his post would lead one to believe otherwise. Hopefully
    he will not take my comment as a personal attack but as a response to a post
    that I considered infantile and trite.

    /ramalane

    --
    I had a wife once but her husband came and got her.
  18. -MIKE-

    -MIKE- Guest

    "JWald" <d_player@gallatinriver.net> wrote:

    > What they told me was that the drummer was unavailable for 2/6 mos. for
    > personal reasons. Never any mention that he might drop in. I don't know if
    > they knew, but they don't seem upset by it because he booked the job
    > prior to leaving. I was told today to take what I can get and have fun. I
    > am now wondering that as the holiday season approaches he may decide that
    > a little extra money would be helpful and request a few jobs. How would I
    > ever know? The xmas parties are good $ and I don't want to lose any of it.
    > My bitch is the fact that I was told this guy was out for awhile and I was
    > looking forward to the gig. Now I don't know if the guy is in or out.



    You need to stand your ground, in a polite, civil manner.

    Tell them they can't have have their cake and eat it, too. They
    need to respect you as a musician by understanding that you need to
    know what gigs are yours and what gigs are not-- ahead of time. You
    need this, in order that you can book yourself out for the busy and
    lucrative holiday season. That is the least they can do and it's
    the smallest amount of respect they can show you as a musician.

    If they balk, in the least, walk away. Tell them it was fun
    playing, but you just can't be kept up in the air. You need time to
    find another band who is booking the holiday season. Nothing
    personal, it's just business. They will probably call you back
    before the evening is up. If not, these aren't guys you want to
    rely on for paychecks. They are users. Let them find someone else
    to use.


    -MIKE-

    --
    http://mikedrums.com
    mike@mikedrumsDOT.com
    ---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply
  19. Either they spaced out on the agreement or they're dishonest and
    opportunistic. Whichever, now you know with whom you're dealing.

    I had this happen to me once, ten years ago--they needed me to cover for
    their regular guy for a nicely-paid/prestigious gig out of town. I wrote it
    in ink and said cool. A week before the gig they called back and said their
    regular guy could make it after all and no they wouldn't pay me. I could
    have taken them to court over a couple three hundred dollars and won, but I
    decided instead to just say, "Look, don't ever call me anymore. As far as
    your concerned, I'm booked forever." Funny thing is, the bandleader is now
    booking a club in town and called my band (you bet I had a contract this
    time!).

    Let us know what you decide.

    "JWald" <d_player@gallatinriver.net> wrote in message
    news:bi0s1m01p48@enews1.newsguy.com...
    > What they told me was that the drummer was unavailable for 2/6 mos. for
    > personal reasons. Never any mention that he might drop in. I don't know if
    > they knew, but they don't seem upset by it because he booked the job

    prior
    > to leaving. I was told today to take what I can get and have fun. I am now
    > wondering that as the holiday season approaches he may decide that a

    little
    > extra money would be helpful and request a few jobs. How would I ever

    know?
    > The xmas parties are good $ and I don't want to lose any of it. My bitch

    is
    > the fact that I was told this guy was out for awhile and I was looking
    > forward to the gig. Now I don't know if the guy is in or out.
    > "Pete Pemberton" <bfpemberton@fuse.net> wrote in message
    > news:3f42eeb1$0$12625$a0465688@nnrp.fuse.net...
    > >
    > > "JWald" <d_player@gallatinriver.net> wrote in message
    > > news:bhuh0p010e5@enews1.newsguy.com...
    > > > What would you do?
    > > > You are hired as a 2 to 6 mos. replacement for a drummer, who for

    > reasons
    > > > that don't matter, wanted/needed time off. You play 3 or 4 jobs and

    are
    > > told
    > > > that the next gig was booked by the drummer prior to going on hiatus,

    > and
    > > > will pay twice the bands normal rate; btw, he might be there.

    > >
    > >
    > > Did they tell you ahead of time all the gigs were yours? Did they tell

    you
    > > he might play some gigs? Did they give you a schedule and say all these

    > you
    > > will be playing? If so, they have an obligation for your were counting

    on
    > > this gig. You may have had to turn down another gig to be available for

    > this
    > > one gig. I'd say they should pay you.
    > >
    > > PP
    > >
    > >

    >
    >
  20. I agree with Mike. Ask for specific dates. It's common practice in the
    professional world to consider any date given you as an oral contract.

    --
    George Lawrence
    George's Drum Shop
    1351 S. Cleveland-Massillon Road #21
    Copley, Ohio 44321
    http://www.GeorgesDrumShop.com
    http://www.Drumguru.com
    330 670 0800
    toll free 866 970 0800

    "If thine enemy wrong thee,
    buy each of his children a drum."
    -Chinese proverb




    "-MIKE-" <mike@mikedrumsDOT.com> wrote in message
    news:qsicnXLiVIxNjNmiXTWJiw@comcast.com...
    > "JWald" <d_player@gallatinriver.net> wrote:
    >
    > > What they told me was that the drummer was unavailable for 2/6 mos. for
    > > personal reasons. Never any mention that he might drop in. I don't know

    if
    > > they knew, but they don't seem upset by it because he booked the job
    > > prior to leaving. I was told today to take what I can get and have fun.

    I
    > > am now wondering that as the holiday season approaches he may decide

    that
    > > a little extra money would be helpful and request a few jobs. How would

    I
    > > ever know? The xmas parties are good $ and I don't want to lose any of

    it.
    > > My bitch is the fact that I was told this guy was out for awhile and I

    was
    > > looking forward to the gig. Now I don't know if the guy is in or out.

    >
    >
    > You need to stand your ground, in a polite, civil manner.
    >
    > Tell them they can't have have their cake and eat it, too. They
    > need to respect you as a musician by understanding that you need to
    > know what gigs are yours and what gigs are not-- ahead of time. You
    > need this, in order that you can book yourself out for the busy and
    > lucrative holiday season. That is the least they can do and it's
    > the smallest amount of respect they can show you as a musician.
    >
    > If they balk, in the least, walk away. Tell them it was fun
    > playing, but you just can't be kept up in the air. You need time to
    > find another band who is booking the holiday season. Nothing
    > personal, it's just business. They will probably call you back
    > before the evening is up. If not, these aren't guys you want to
    > rely on for paychecks. They are users. Let them find someone else
    > to use.
    >
    >
    > -MIKE-
    >
    > --
    > http://mikedrums.com
    > mike@mikedrumsDOT.com
    > ---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply
    >

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