Hired Gun Dilemma

Discussion in 'rec.music.percussion' started by JWald, Aug 20, 2003.

  1. Well, all musicans are hired guns and yes, there is very little job security
    in other professions as well. There used to be 30 year jobs with a nice
    pension and a gold watch at the end, but those days are gone. But musicians
    have always been self employed and per job players, except for a handful of
    staff broadcast studio players. Name me one employer who has ever given any
    musican a 30 year job. What Alan said is spot on and spoken by a man with
    probably the most experience in the this bunch.

    --
    George Lawrence
    George's Drum Shop
    1351 S. Cleveland-Massillon Road #21
    Copley, Ohio 44321
    http://www.GeorgesDrumShop.com
    http://www.Drumguru.com
    330 670 0800
    toll free 866 970 0800

    "If thine enemy wrong thee,
    buy each of his children a drum."
    -Chinese proverb




    "ramalane" <ramalane@ramalaneTINR.com> wrote in message
    news:KJT0b.9324$7F2.7670@fe05.atl2.webusenet.com...
    >
    > "Glenn Dowdy" <glenn.dowdy@nospam.com> wrote in message
    > news:%wS0b.2929$z_4.2352@news.cpqcorp.net...
    > :
    > : "ramalane" <ramalane@ramalaneTINR.com> wrote in message
    > : news:7cS0b.581$o9.75@fe03.atl2.webusenet.com...
    > : >
    > : > "Alan Watkins" <alanwatkinsuk@aol.com> wrote in message
    > : > news:62c8649c.0308201359.7c21731d@posting.google.com...
    > : > : All musicians are hired guns, even those who think they are in a
    > : > : band/orchestra/whatever.
    > : > :
    > : > : When the phone rings you say yes or no. It is your call.
    > : >
    > : > I would flame you that would be tantamount to bullying the village
    > idiot.
    > : >
    > : More like the wise old man on top of the mountain. You should google on
    > : Alan.
    >
    > I'm not going to bother. IMHO anyone who makes a vague generalization

    like
    > that didn't think it through before posting. All musicians are hired

    guns?
    > The same could be said about anyone in any profession, no? And

    pretentious
    > philosophical statements bore me to tears.
    >
    > And please keep in mind that I am behaving myself. Google indeed!
    > Pffft!
    >
    > /ramalane
    >
    > --
    > "An Opasson hath an head like a Swine, and a taile like a Rat, and is of

    the
    > bignes of a Cat. Under her belly she hath a bagge, wherein she lodgeth,
    > carrieth, and sucketh her young." - Captain John Smith, 1608
    >
    >
    >
    >
  2. ramalane

    ramalane Guest

    "George Lawrence" <drumguru@ameritech.net> wrote in message
    news:x3X0b.10385$Ih1.3857002@newssrv26.news.prodigy.com...
    : Well, all musicans are hired guns and yes, there is very little job
    security
    : in other professions as well. There used to be 30 year jobs with a nice
    : pension and a gold watch at the end, but those days are gone. But
    musicians
    : have always been self employed and per job players, except for a handful
    of
    : staff broadcast studio players. Name me one employer who has ever given
    any
    : musican a 30 year job.

    Johnny Carson - Doc Severinson :eek:)

    (J/K)

    (I can only backpedal so hard you know...it's not like riding a unicycle!
    ;o)

    /ramalane

    --
    Church of the Swimming Elephant
    http://www.cotse.com
    Have you been to church today?
  3. ramalane

    ramalane Guest

    "-MIKE-" <mike@mikedrumsDOT.com> wrote in message
    news:QIadndhiQN0OwtmiXTWJhw@comcast.com...
    > > (I can only backpedal so hard you know...it's not like riding a

    unicycle!
    > > ;o)
    > >
    > > /ramalane

    >
    >
    > Now I'm taking yours for a sig! :) LOL
    >


    LOL! I'm humbled....really....I am.

    :eek:)

    /ramalane

    --
    Church of the Swimming Elephant
    http://www.cotse.com
    Have you been to church today?
  4. -MIKE-

    -MIKE- Guest

    > (I can only backpedal so hard you know...it's not like riding a unicycle!
    > ;o)
    >
    > /ramalane



    Now I'm taking yours for a sig! :) LOL


    -MIKE-

    --
    http://mikedrums.com
    mike@mikedrumsDOT.com
    ---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply
  5. George Lawrence <drumguru@ameritech.net> wrote:
    > Well, all musicans are hired guns and yes, there is very little job security
    > in other professions as well. There used to be 30 year jobs with a nice
    > pension and a gold watch at the end, but those days are gone. But musicians
    > have always been self employed and per job players, except for a handful of
    > staff broadcast studio players. Name me one employer who has ever given any
    > musican a 30 year job. What Alan said is spot on and spoken by a man with
    > probably the most experience in the this bunch.


    Yeah, Alan is one of the "elders" of the group! :)

    But I would say "most" rather than "all" musicians. As you note
    there are a few situations where "hired gun" doesn't apply.
    Let me note that this is America and the contract is king.
    A musician like anyone else has the right to get just about
    ANY arrangement in writing and sue the pants off the people
    involved if they don't honor it. It can make you king for life
    or make you an indentured servant where you can never be free.
    It's all in the words. There are some rather well known examples
    of both kinds in the music business.

    But let's face it "most" musicians are self-employed and take
    work as it comes. Few rise to "king" status and usually after
    several really good screwings, the old bunghole puckers up tight
    enough to keep us from being indentured for life.

    Benj
    (Um, say, am I one of the "elders" here or not? I think so.)
    --
    SPAM-Guard! Remove .users (if present) to email me!
  6. JWald <d_player@gallatinriver.net> wrote:

    > I suppose I should also mention the second singer/guitar player situation.
    > He played with this bunch in their last configuration as a freebie. He
    > walked in 5 mins. to show time, sing 2 sets, walked out. Never asked for a
    > dime; just the experience. This time around they liked the idea again except
    > that he thinks he's part of the band and would like to be paid something.
    > What he doesn't know is that these guys are going to ace him out of A BUNCH
    > of upcoming gigs. He can sing for free but they aren't going to pay him
    > squat. I'm thinking I'm in a same but different boat.


    Yeah, that's what I'm thinking too. Generally if you see guys
    giving someone else the shaft, you'd better start covering your
    own butt real fast because sooner or later they'll get around
    to doing it to you. It's just band policy, man! :)

    Like Guru and others said, get them to start defining dates
    and let them know you consider the list cast in concrete.
    (that means they get to sub you out, but you still get
    paid if you play or not! The only out is if the whole gig gets
    cancelled. ...keep an ear to the ground to make SURE it really
    was cancelled. If you find out they said it was cancelled but they
    played it secretly with the other drummer...you be GONE!)

    Benj
    --
    SPAM-Guard! Remove .users (if present) to email me!

  7. > >
    > > Now I'm taking yours for a sig! :) LOL
    > >

    >
    > LOL! I'm humbled....really....I am.
    >



    /room
  8. jmt

    jmt Guest

    Dear JW;
    No. You take it or leave it, same as any other gig situation.
    jmt

    JWald wrote:
    > What would you do?
    > You are hired as a 2 to 6 mos. replacement for a drummer, who for reasons
    > that don't matter, wanted/needed time off. You play 3 or 4 jobs and are told
    > that the next gig was booked by the drummer prior to going on hiatus, and
    > will pay twice the bands normal rate; btw, he might be there.
    > Then you receive notice that he WILL be there, because he is going to play
    > the gig. Are you the slightest bit upset?
    > --
    > jwald
    >
    > "Leave the gun. Take the cannoli."
    > Clemenza - Godfather I
    >
    >
  9. :)

    --
    George Lawrence
    George's Drum Shop
    1351 S. Cleveland-Massillon Road #21
    Copley, Ohio 44321
    http://www.GeorgesDrumShop.com
    http://www.Drumguru.com
    330 670 0800
    toll free 866 970 0800

    "If thine enemy wrong thee,
    buy each of his children a drum."
    -Chinese proverb




    "ramalane" <ramalane@ramalaneTINR.com> wrote in message
    news:p1X0b.5281$qw1.3222@fe04.atl2.webusenet.com...
    >
    > "George Lawrence" <drumguru@ameritech.net> wrote in message
    > news:x3X0b.10385$Ih1.3857002@newssrv26.news.prodigy.com...
    > : Well, all musicans are hired guns and yes, there is very little job
    > security
    > : in other professions as well. There used to be 30 year jobs with a nice
    > : pension and a gold watch at the end, but those days are gone. But
    > musicians
    > : have always been self employed and per job players, except for a handful
    > of
    > : staff broadcast studio players. Name me one employer who has ever given
    > any
    > : musican a 30 year job.
    >
    > Johnny Carson - Doc Severinson :eek:)
    >
    > (J/K)
    >
    > (I can only backpedal so hard you know...it's not like riding a unicycle!
    > ;o)
    >
    > /ramalane
    >
    > --
    > Church of the Swimming Elephant
    > http://www.cotse.com
    > Have you been to church today?
    >
    >
    >
    >
  10. > "ramalane" <ramalane@ramalaneTINR.com> wrote in message
    > news:p1X0b.5281$qw1.3222@fe04.atl2.webusenet.com...
    > >
    > > "George Lawrence" <drumguru@ameritech.net> wrote in message
    > > news:x3X0b.10385$Ih1.3857002@newssrv26.news.prodigy.com...
    > > : Well, all musicans are hired guns and yes, there is very little job
    > > security
    > > : in other professions as well. There used to be 30 year jobs with a

    nice
    > > : pension and a gold watch at the end, but those days are gone. But
    > > musicians
    > > : have always been self employed and per job players, except for a

    handful
    > > of
    > > : staff broadcast studio players. Name me one employer who has ever

    given
    > > any
    > > : musican a 30 year job.
    > >
    > > Johnny Carson - Doc Severinson :eek:)


    Add the Stones, Moody Blues, Count Basie Orchestra, and the O'Jays. Will
    Lee and Paul Schaeffer are pushing 20 years with David Letterman.
  11. It's odd you should pick those particular bands. I know sidemen in all those
    organizations. Paul Schaeffer has a contract, but CBS has all the options.
    Will doesn't. The sidemen with the Stones, Moody Blues, O'Jays and Count
    Basie Orchestra past and present are all hired guns; handshake deals, no
    contract, per tour players. The owners and members of those bands are all,
    of course, self employed so they have no exended contract either. Of course
    when you are a partial owner of any band that successful you usually don't
    need job security. I hired players out of Nashville for years as a music
    director for recording artists and there were never any contracts for me as
    md or for the sidemen.

    --
    George Lawrence
    George's Drum Shop
    1351 S. Cleveland-Massillon Road #21
    Copley, Ohio 44321
    http://www.GeorgesDrumShop.com
    http://www.Drumguru.com
    330 670 0800
    toll free 866 970 0800

    "If thine enemy wrong thee,
    buy each of his children a drum."
    -Chinese proverb




    "Da Parrot-chick" <just@sk.me> wrote in message
    news:uW91b.2565$lw4.1235@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net...
    > > "ramalane" <ramalane@ramalaneTINR.com> wrote in message
    > > news:p1X0b.5281$qw1.3222@fe04.atl2.webusenet.com...
    > > >
    > > > "George Lawrence" <drumguru@ameritech.net> wrote in message
    > > > news:x3X0b.10385$Ih1.3857002@newssrv26.news.prodigy.com...
    > > > : Well, all musicans are hired guns and yes, there is very little job
    > > > security
    > > > : in other professions as well. There used to be 30 year jobs with a

    > nice
    > > > : pension and a gold watch at the end, but those days are gone. But
    > > > musicians
    > > > : have always been self employed and per job players, except for a

    > handful
    > > > of
    > > > : staff broadcast studio players. Name me one employer who has ever

    > given
    > > > any
    > > > : musican a 30 year job.
    > > >
    > > > Johnny Carson - Doc Severinson :eek:)

    >
    > Add the Stones, Moody Blues, Count Basie Orchestra, and the O'Jays. Will
    > Lee and Paul Schaeffer are pushing 20 years with David Letterman.
    >
    >
  12. Alan Watkins

    Alan Watkins Guest

    "ramalane" <ramalane@ramalaneTINR.com> wrote in message news:<KJT0b.9324$7F2.7670@fe05.atl2.webusenet.com>...
    > "Glenn Dowdy" <glenn.dowdy@nospam.com> wrote in message
    > news:%wS0b.2929$z_4.2352@news.cpqcorp.net...
    > :
    > : "ramalane" <ramalane@ramalaneTINR.com> wrote in message
    > : news:7cS0b.581$o9.75@fe03.atl2.webusenet.com...
    > : >
    > : > "Alan Watkins" <alanwatkinsuk@aol.com> wrote in message
    > : > news:62c8649c.0308201359.7c21731d@posting.google.com...
    > : > : All musicians are hired guns, even those who think they are in a
    > : > : band/orchestra/whatever.
    > : > :
    > : > : When the phone rings you say yes or no. It is your call.
    > : >
    > : > I would flame you that would be tantamount to bullying the village
    > idiot.
    > : >
    > : More like the wise old man on top of the mountain. You should google on
    > : Alan.
    >
    > I'm not going to bother. IMHO anyone who makes a vague generalization like
    > that didn't think it through before posting. All musicians are hired guns?
    > The same could be said about anyone in any profession, no? And pretentious
    > philosophical statements bore me to tears.
    >
    > And please keep in mind that I am behaving myself. Google indeed!
    > Pffft!
    >
    > /ramalane


    I am certainly old but not a wise old man on top of a mountain. I
    certainly did not think it through before posting but I did base it on
    40 years plus as a professional player.

    When I entered this wonderful business there was very little security
    of employment and, so far as I see, that remains the case in 2003. The
    rule was, when I began, that if they phoned you and offered a gig (s)
    you said Yes if you were available.

    You did not ask, nor care, who did your part on the dates for which
    you were not engaged. Maybe things have changed?

    It is still a wonderful business. I remain an elderly hired gun.

    Kind regards,
    Alan M. Watkins
  13. Alan Watkins

    Alan Watkins Guest

    soulbelly@aol.comICAL (nick amoroso) wrote in message news:<20030820194413.07508.00000316@mb-m25.aol.com>...
    > >: When the phone rings you say yes or no. It is your call.
    > >
    > >I would flame you that would be tantamount to bullying the village idiot.
    > >
    > >/ramalane

    >
    > you couldn't be more incorrect on alan.
    >


    All I am saying is that if I am booked for Monday, Wednesday and
    Friday I don't give a s**t who is playing on Tuesday, Thursday,
    Saturday.

    I'll stick by yes or no.

    Kind regards,
    Alan M. Watkins
  14. Chuck isn't the one I know but it is quite common to not even discuss money
    at that level, much less agree by handshake. I know that a couple of the
    Nashcille players on the Dire Straits gig were only told that they would be
    "well taken care of" which resulted in well over a half mil for a year tour,
    considerably more than the top dollar they would have asked for. I'm sure
    this isn't always the case, but a contract is worth the paper it's written
    on unless you have lawyers who are better and more expensive than the
    employer's.

    --
    George Lawrence
    George's Drum Shop
    1351 S. Cleveland-Massillon Road #21
    Copley, Ohio 44321
    http://www.GeorgesDrumShop.com
    http://www.Drumguru.com
    330 670 0800
    toll free 866 970 0800

    "If thine enemy wrong thee,
    buy each of his children a drum."
    -Chinese proverb




    "Da Parrot-chick" <just@sk.me> wrote in message
    news:R7e1b.2825$lw4.2368@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net...
    >
    > "George Lawrence" <drumguru@ameritech.net> wrote in message
    > news:Tfb1b.11050$Ih1.4034481@newssrv26.news.prodigy.com...
    > > It's odd you should pick those particular bands. I know sidemen in all

    > those
    > > organizations. Paul Schaeffer has a contract, but CBS has all the

    options.
    > > Will doesn't. The sidemen with the Stones, Moody Blues, O'Jays and Count
    > > Basie Orchestra past and present are all hired guns; handshake deals, no
    > > contract, per tour players.

    >
    > Right. I find it interesting that Chuck Leavell has held that chair so

    long
    > with only a handshake.
    >
    > The owners and members of those bands are all,
    > > of course, self employed so they have no exended contract either. Of

    > course
    > > when you are a partial owner of any band that successful you usually

    don't
    > > need job security.

    >
    > Is there any job in America with job security these days?
    >
    > I hired players out of Nashville for years as a music
    > > director for recording artists and there were never any contracts for me

    > as
    > > md or for the sidemen.

    >
    > I'd like to hear some of those stories, sometime.
    >
    >
  15. if I am booked for Monday, Wednesday and
    Friday I don't give a s**t who is playing on Tuesday, Thursday,
    Saturday.

    FAQ and sig.
    --
    George Lawrence
    George's Drum Shop
    1351 S. Cleveland-Massillon Road #21
    Copley, Ohio 44321
    http://www.GeorgesDrumShop.com
    http://www.Drumguru.com
    330 670 0800
    toll free 866 970 0800

    "If thine enemy wrong thee,
    buy each of his children a drum."
    -Chinese proverb




    "Alan Watkins" <alanwatkinsuk@aol.com> wrote in message
    news:62c8649c.0308211556.7e5d36ee@posting.google.com...
    > soulbelly@aol.comICAL (nick amoroso) wrote in message

    news:<20030820194413.07508.00000316@mb-m25.aol.com>...
    > > >: When the phone rings you say yes or no. It is your call.
    > > >
    > > >I would flame you that would be tantamount to bullying the village

    idiot.
    > > >
    > > >/ramalane

    > >
    > > you couldn't be more incorrect on alan.
    > >

    >
    > All I am saying is that if I am booked for Monday, Wednesday and
    > Friday I don't give a s**t who is playing on Tuesday, Thursday,
    > Saturday.
    >
    > I'll stick by yes or no.
    >
    > Kind regards,
    > Alan M. Watkins
  16. Alan Watkins <alanwatkinsuk@aol.com> wrote:

    > When I entered this wonderful business there was very little security
    > of employment and, so far as I see, that remains the case in 2003. The
    > rule was, when I began, that if they phoned you and offered a gig (s)
    > you said Yes if you were available.


    > You did not ask, nor care, who did your part on the dates for which
    > you were not engaged. Maybe things have changed?


    As another "elderly" hired gun, I have to say that is pretty much
    the situation for sidemen. But I do think the Rock era changed
    things for some musicians. Remember my "contract" thing? One
    thing rock brought us was the possiblity of making some HUGE
    bucks. That ALWAYS gets people's attention.

    So if say you are in a band that is developing some "concept"
    which may pay off big later, "hired gun" just ain't gonna do it.
    And that is especially true if every band member is part of the
    "creative" process that goes into the "product" development.
    Record companies demand these kind of contracts in exchange for
    "product development" all the time. Therefore, a group that starts
    to look like there is cash there will often lock themselves in.
    Some musicians on the other hand (such a James Brown) always hire
    "sidemen" no matter how much they may have helped him develop his
    product.

    Of course that would be the "founders" and "creators" who lock
    themselves in. Usually, tour members and additional players are
    still "hired guns". But Elvis did not get that mansion as a
    "hired gun". Sorry, Elvis, we don't need you for this gig cause
    our old singer is going to do it. Sure.

    Benj

    --
    SPAM-Guard! Remove .users (if present) to email me!
  17. Alan Watkins <alanwatkinsuk@aol.com> wrote:

    > All I am saying is that if I am booked for Monday, Wednesday and
    > Friday I don't give a s**t who is playing on Tuesday, Thursday,
    > Saturday.


    > I'll stick by yes or no.


    But that's because you are a sideman. Consider for a moment
    that (Yeah I know this is a stretch :) that you and some buds
    formed a band and together you were developing a concept
    that people were starting to dig. It starts to look like at
    least there is the possiblity of some heavy cash down the
    road. In this case it suddenly becomes VERY important
    exactly WHO is playing Tuesday, Thursday and Saturday.

    To say you aren't interested is the same as saying,"Well
    I've been working very hard with my pals to develop our
    band and it's starting to catch on. I can see that one day
    my friends are all going to be VERY rich! Of course, I'm
    not interested because I'll be long gone before then. I wish
    them well. I was glad to help them get started. The Holiday
    Inn just called me with gigs and I said 'yes'".

    Benj

    --
    SPAM-Guard! Remove .users (if present) to email me!
  18. Herein lies the line between the professional and the non professional.
    There is a reason gigs are called "dates" and I have a case in point to
    demonstrate. When I first moved to Ohio last year I got involved with a good
    weekend warrior rock band here whose chair was being vacated by an RMMPer
    who doesn't post much here anymore. He had asked me if I would be interested
    since he was moving away so I checked it out and it looked like fun and a
    good way for me to start playing locally. I asked if the players can play
    and if they are good people. He said they were. The only reservation they
    had was that I am a full time pro playing other dates and they aren't. I
    rehearsed with these guys and was given specific dates.

    The problem came up after two or three gigs when the "leader" couldn't keep
    his date book straight and told me that I had accepted dates that I hadn't,
    even though he had email verification of every date I had accepted. So he
    went in to garage band mode and, instead of admitting his mistake, hired an
    amateur drummer to replace me without telling me until many days later. Of
    course I told him that I had turned down other work and asked him to do the
    right thing but he wouldn't. He considered music just a hobby. He would
    book the band around his and the other member's full time jobs and vacations
    but not my music jobs. Needless to say he was the weakest player in the band
    and owned the P.A. system. :) Luckily I re-booked those dates, but I felt
    sorry for the other players in that band who had to put up with this
    incompetence and knew that he had lied to me. Sometimes you can get amateur
    or part time musicians to understand the concept of "dates" but sometimes
    you can't.

    --
    George Lawrence
    George's Drum Shop
    1351 S. Cleveland-Massillon Road #21
    Copley, Ohio 44321
    http://www.GeorgesDrumShop.com
    http://www.Drumguru.com
    330 670 0800
    toll free 866 970 0800

    "If thine enemy wrong thee,
    buy each of his children a drum."
    -Chinese proverb




    "ramalane" <ramalane@ramalaneTINR.com> wrote in message
    news:OIT0b.5056$qw1.5053@fe04.atl2.webusenet.com...
    >
    > "JWald" <d_player@gallatinriver.net> wrote in message
    > news:bi0t2s01qdg@enews1.newsguy.com...
    > :
    > : <bjacoby@users.iwaynet.net> wrote in message
    > : news:bhuri6$q0k$1@tribune.oar.net...
    > : > There is a HUGE difference between "sideman" and bandmember.
    > : > You are just a pick-up player and therefore play at their
    > : > discretion. An exception would be if somehow they had led
    > : > you believe that you'd have some guaranteed number of
    > : > gigs, but without that, it could be WAY worse than
    > : > simply the old drummer skimming cream off the high
    > : > pay gig.
    > :
    > : I was told that they needed A drummer to fill in for the unavailable;

    2/6
    > : mos.
    > : I take that to mean they needed 1 drummer.
    > :
    > :
    > :
    > : They could for example suddenly decide to
    > : > try out another "replacement" drummer or maybe even
    > : > three. You just get the gigs they say you can play.
    > : > Should you be upset? Depends. It's all about how
    > : > they tell you. If they just come to and say, hey,
    > : > we will be trying another drummer, you only
    > : > play dates so and so and so. Ok. You are casual.
    > :
    > : If they had, or do say they are looking for another that is fine. They
    > came
    > : looking for me, I suppose they can look somemore if they want. At least

    I
    > : would know the deal.
    > :
    > :
    > : > They are the boss. You say fine and do it. If
    > : > they told you hey, we need a replacement for such
    > : > and such a time and you'll be playing X gigs, and
    > : > then pull the rug, you can be pissed because they
    > : > weren't honest about the gig.
    > :
    > : I feel this is exactly what was done. A specific number of gigs wasn't
    > : mention because they are just starting to book. Never was the notion of
    > : sporactic gigs mentioned.
    > : >
    > : > Being professional means that they are up front
    > : > with their needs and you honestly try to fill
    > : > their needs without making it into a personal thing.
    > : >
    > : > If it were me, I'd not think twice about the loss
    > : > of one skimmed gig. But if suddenly ALL the high
    > : > pay gigs need the old drummer, I'd start raising
    > : > questions because now in effect they had promised
    > : > one price and by pulling me off the high end gigs they
    > : > are cutting my pay. I still might keep it up, but
    > : > I'd have to evaluate IF the "new" lower pay was
    > : > sufficient. If not, I'd cease to be "available".
    > : > But in any case it should never become a personal
    > : > personality thing.
    > :
    > :
    > : I suppose I should also mention the second singer/guitar player

    situation.
    > : He played with this bunch in their last configuration as a freebie. He
    > : walked in 5 mins. to show time, sing 2 sets, walked out. Never asked for

    a
    > : dime; just the experience. This time around they liked the idea again
    > except
    > : that he thinks he's part of the band and would like to be paid

    something.
    > : What he doesn't know is that these guys are going to ace him out of A
    > BUNCH
    > : of upcoming gigs. He can sing for free but they aren't going to pay him
    > : squat. I'm thinking I'm in a same but different boat.
    >
    > Same boat, you're flotsam and he's jetsum. LOL! (J/K)
    > I'd mention my concern to the leader of the band (there's always one guy

    who
    > keeps things together). He probably hasn't thought about your situation;
    > he's too busy trying to keep the boat afloat. :eek:)
    >
    > /ramalane
    >
    > P.S. Tell him that you need to know about New Years Eve. You need a
    > commitment for that night if for no other.
    >
    > --
    > Church of the Swimming Elephant
    > http://www.cotse.com
    > Have you been to church today?
    >
    >
    >
  19. Ben, we're talking gigs here, not recording contracts. The record contract
    still does not guarantee you job security. People get hired and fired out of
    bands with deals all the time. Session players get called in, etc. It
    depends on who has the money, not the contract.

    --
    George Lawrence
    George's Drum Shop
    1351 S. Cleveland-Massillon Road #21
    Copley, Ohio 44321
    http://www.GeorgesDrumShop.com
    http://www.Drumguru.com
    330 670 0800
    toll free 866 970 0800

    "If thine enemy wrong thee,
    buy each of his children a drum."
    -Chinese proverb




    <bjacoby@users.iwaynet.net> wrote in message
    news:bi40g6$h30$2@tribune.oar.net...
    > Alan Watkins <alanwatkinsuk@aol.com> wrote:
    >
    > > All I am saying is that if I am booked for Monday, Wednesday and
    > > Friday I don't give a s**t who is playing on Tuesday, Thursday,
    > > Saturday.

    >
    > > I'll stick by yes or no.

    >
    > But that's because you are a sideman. Consider for a moment
    > that (Yeah I know this is a stretch :) that you and some buds
    > formed a band and together you were developing a concept
    > that people were starting to dig. It starts to look like at
    > least there is the possiblity of some heavy cash down the
    > road. In this case it suddenly becomes VERY important
    > exactly WHO is playing Tuesday, Thursday and Saturday.
    >
    > To say you aren't interested is the same as saying,"Well
    > I've been working very hard with my pals to develop our
    > band and it's starting to catch on. I can see that one day
    > my friends are all going to be VERY rich! Of course, I'm
    > not interested because I'll be long gone before then. I wish
    > them well. I was glad to help them get started. The Holiday
    > Inn just called me with gigs and I said 'yes'".
    >
    > Benj
    >
    > --
    > SPAM-Guard! Remove .users (if present) to email me!
  20. JWald

    JWald Guest

    I agree. However, I wasn't booked for specific dates. I was asked to fill in
    for the departed drummer for 2/ 6 mos. That sounds a lot like *will you play
    every gig we have until our regular drummer returns?* to me. If he was
    returning now, that would be fine, but he is not. He's jumping in and out
    skimming cream. I question the guys status with the band.
    --
    jwald

    "Leave the gun. Take the cannoli."
    Clemenza - Godfather I
    "Alan Watkins" <alanwatkinsuk@aol.com> wrote in message >
    > All I am saying is that if I am booked for Monday, Wednesday and
    > Friday I don't give a s**t who is playing on Tuesday, Thursday,
    > Saturday.
    >
    > I'll stick by yes or no.
    >
    > Kind regards,
    > Alan M. Watkins

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