Measuring distortion

Discussion in 'rec.audio.pro' started by Jan Holm, Aug 29, 2003.

  1. Jan Holm

    Jan Holm Guest

    Hi there

    I'm a promo/commecial producer at a media compagny.
    I've just about had it with some of the external productions
    we get in. To me it sounds like

    HPF @ 150, Bit redcution, boost of high freq, a crap multiband
    compress and wavesL1 V1.0 at -12db.

    Square screaming all over the place. I'm trying to build a strong
    case for sending this shit back. I know I'm in for at big political
    fight with non tech people. It would be nice if I could show some
    measurements to back my case. So, is there a program able to
    do a "distortion" measurement.

    Regards
    Jan Holm
  2. Scott Dorsey

    Scott Dorsey Guest

    Jan Holm <NOSPAM@NOSPAM.TIA> wrote:
    >
    >Square screaming all over the place. I'm trying to build a strong
    >case for sending this shit back. I know I'm in for at big political
    >fight with non tech people. It would be nice if I could show some
    >measurements to back my case. So, is there a program able to
    >do a "distortion" measurement.


    Not really, but you can just do a spectral plot and see how ugly it is.
    Another thing you can do is just a time domain plot and look at all
    the flat-topping on waveforms.

    You need to check out Bob Katz's paper on the subject of overcompression
    and see some of the nastiness.

    How many consecutive FS samples _is_ an over? If it's four, then a whole
    lot of CDs get sent back...
    --scott
    --
    "C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."
  3. Arny Krueger

    Arny Krueger Guest

    "Jan Holm" <NOSPAM@NOSPAM.TIA> wrote in message
    news:3f4fd8e7$0$13225$edfadb0f@dread15.news.tele.dk
    > Hi there
    >
    > I'm a promo/commercial producer at a media company.
    > I've just about had it with some of the external productions
    > we get in. To me it sounds like


    > HPF @ 150, Bit reduction, boost of high freq, a crap multiband
    > compress and wavesL1 V1.0 at -12db.


    Regrettably, key to any modern distortion measurement is comparison of the
    original "clean" signal, to the potentially distorted form of it. It sounds
    to me like finding the original "clean" signal is a real problem in your
    application.

    > Square screaming all over the place.


    Now that's measurable.

    >I'm trying to build a strong
    > case for sending this shit back. I know I'm in for at big political
    > fight with non tech people. It would be nice if I could show some
    > measurements to back my case. So, is there a program able to
    > do a "distortion" measurement.



    If your non tech people don't trust you in matters like this, why do they
    pay your salary? If they can't hear that something this bad is crap, it
    seems to me like they don't belong in the music business. But, if they are
    too functionally deaf to hear stuff like this, they probably aren't the only
    ones in their position.

    At some point a career decision might need to be made.
  4. Mike Rivers

    Mike Rivers Guest

    In article <3f4fd8e7$0$13225$edfadb0f@dread15.news.tele.dk> NOSPAM@NOSPAM.TIA writes:

    > I'm a promo/commecial producer at a media compagny.
    > I've just about had it with some of the external productions
    > we get in. To me it sounds like
    > HPF @ 150, Bit redcution, boost of high freq, a crap multiband
    > compress and wavesL1 V1.0 at -12db.


    > Square screaming all over the place. I'm trying to build a strong
    > case for sending this shit back.


    That may be a reasonable technical description of what has been done
    to an otherwise nice sounding recording, but as the producer, you need
    to consider the application. Is this a commercial that's not going to
    get noticed unless it screams in the listener's ear when he's trying
    to tune it out? Is this a song that, when played on the radio, will
    make people riding in their car change to another station when it
    comes on because they can't hear it over the ambient noise?

    If it's something that's intended for a listener to sit and pay
    attention to, then you may have a case for asking for a re-mix or
    re-processing. If it's for other purposes, there may be an advantage
    to the sound you so much dislike. It may not be right, but it's what
    makes money.


    --
    I'm really Mike Rivers - (mrivers@d-and-d.com)
  5. Jan B

    Jan B Guest

    On 30 Aug 2003 09:03:58 -0400, mrivers@d-and-d.com (Mike Rivers)
    wrote:

    >
    >In article <3f4fd8e7$0$13225$edfadb0f@dread15.news.tele.dk> NOSPAM@NOSPAM.TIA writes:
    >
    >> I'm a promo/commecial producer at a media compagny.
    >> I've just about had it with some of the external productions
    >> we get in. To me it sounds like
    >> HPF @ 150, Bit redcution, boost of high freq, a crap multiband
    >> compress and wavesL1 V1.0 at -12db.

    >
    >> Square screaming all over the place. I'm trying to build a strong
    >> case for sending this shit back.


    Yes, please do. That it sounds bad should be reason enough.

    >
    >That may be a reasonable technical description of what has been done
    >to an otherwise nice sounding recording, but as the producer, you need
    >to consider the application. Is this a commercial that's not going to
    >get noticed unless it screams in the listener's ear when he's trying
    >to tune it out?


    I think there are more people like me. I turn it off when it screams
    in my ear.

    >Is this a song that, when played on the radio, will
    >make people riding in their car change to another station when it
    >comes on because they can't hear it over the ambient noise?
    >
    >If it's something that's intended for a listener to sit and pay
    >attention to, then you may have a case for asking for a re-mix or
    >re-processing. If it's for other purposes, there may be an advantage
    >to the sound you so much dislike. It may not be right, but it's what
    >makes money.


    I would rephrase that: If it's intended for a listener, have it
    redone. If not, it shouldn't be done at all ...

    >--
    >I'm really Mike Rivers - (mrivers@d-and-d.com)


    I'm glad to see that someone in the business (like Jan Holm) tries to
    do something about the ongoing distortion madness.
    What strikes me as a complete mystery is the commercials on TV that
    try to sell MUSIC using a saturated "screaming in my ear" sound.
    I don't know, maybe that is how the product really sounds.
    (They don't sell any to me...)
    /Jan

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