MIDI in a live-band's setup?

Discussion in 'comp.music.midi' started by negg, Jun 25, 2003.

  1. negg

    negg Guest

    Hi Group,

    Is there someone out there using a MIDI-equipped PC in a live band's
    setup (like DR-GIT-BS) as replacement for a keyboarder or for
    additional fill sounds?

    I would appreciate being pointed into a direction which software you
    use, which hardware you use to control the stuff and where the
    problems might arise.

    Thank you very much,
    negg (Martin Schuster)
  2. JB Seattle

    JB Seattle Guest

    We use two setups, I use a Laptop that runs a Roland SC8820 midi mod and a
    Digitect Vocalizer and a Roland Keyboard. My duo partner uses a Roland MC80
    to drive a Motu pactchbay and a Digitech Vocalizer, Midiverb, Gr33 Guitar
    synth and VG88 Guitar processor.
    The biggest problem is the drummer, when you use a live drummer, he or she
    must able to take a click track or drum track in the ear and stay on beat,
    midi takes no prisoners.
    JB
    "negg" <neggl@web.de> wrote in message
    news:daffbd86.0306250613.18854d22@posting.google.com...
    > Hi Group,
    >
    > Is there someone out there using a MIDI-equipped PC in a live band's
    > setup (like DR-GIT-BS) as replacement for a keyboarder or for
    > additional fill sounds?
    >
    > I would appreciate being pointed into a direction which software you
    > use, which hardware you use to control the stuff and where the
    > problems might arise.
    >
    > Thank you very much,
    > negg (Martin Schuster)
  3. Tony Roe

    Tony Roe Guest

    I'm just starting to do that, with a couple of twists:

    With no decent separate Midi synth or Midi-equipped notebook PC, I'm using an
    old Yamaha DB50XG on a SoundBlaster 16. For portability, I plugged them into a
    Toshiba T5200 laptop (big, heavy, no batteries, but still much easier than a
    desktop PC); it has an 11MHz 386 CPU and 6MB RAM, but it runs DOS 6.22 and
    MegaMid (a DOS Midi file player) faultlessly.

    But wait - there's more.

    I'm in a 5 piece band, and we want to use Midi to add to the sound. Work for 5
    piece bands is scarce, and there is more work available for 4/3/2/1 piece bands,
    and even a little for larger (6-9 piece) bands. It is impractical to maintain a
    full repertoire of backing tracks to suit each possible lineup (1 to 9 piece).
    What is needed is one set of complete sequenced backings and a method of telling
    the system which players are present on that night, then automatically muting
    the relevant tracks.

    Midi sequencers can typically handle many tracks, but only 16 Midi channels are
    usually available to convey all that data to the synthesizer(s), so several
    tracks may use the same Midi channel (eg one channel for three trumpet parts or
    three vocal harmony parts, etc). As long as each distinct part uses a separate
    sequencer track with a carefully chosen name, each Midi file can be preprocessed
    before it is played to remove the specific tracks corresponding to the live
    musicians present.

    The playlist manager and mute controller is just about finished now, but I have
    a lot of work to do to clean up the Midi files rename the tracks (each mutable
    track name must START with a 4 character abbreviation, like bas1, drm1, str1,
    vox1, etc). Vocal parts are a good example of the complication I needed to
    handle -

    Vox1, Vox2 etc will be the vocal guide track plus harmonies, voiced to sound OK
    as an instrumental on Midi channel 4. When real vocalists are present, some or
    all of these tracks will be muted. When a harmonizer is present (eg Digitech),
    the remaining unmuted tracks will be rendered by the harmonizer instead of the
    synth (determined by sysex). Where a backup vocalist would sing "ooh" or some
    other synthesizable sound instead of a harmony, then those notes are directed to
    different tracks (eg Vox2oo, Vox3oo, etc) which might all use another common
    Midi channel voiced as "ooh". Further tracks plus a common Midi channel may also
    be set up for the "aah" sounds or other sounds; or the "ooh"s, "aah"s and any
    other synthesizable sounds may be handled by tracks like Vox1ooa, Vox2ooa etc,
    all via a single Midi channel (eg 9) alternating between these voicings as
    required, provided the song permits it). Those not muted because a vocalist is
    present are rendered by the synthesizer. Any text can be added to the track name
    after the required name and number, eg to record the name of the person who
    usually does that part (eg "Vox1-Sharon").

    It's not really as complicated as it sounds.

    On 25 Jun 2003 07:13:52 -0700, neggl@web.de (negg) wrote:

    >Hi Group,
    >
    >Is there someone out there using a MIDI-equipped PC in a live band's
    >setup (like DR-GIT-BS) as replacement for a keyboarder or for
    >additional fill sounds?
    >
    >I would appreciate being pointed into a direction which software you
    >use, which hardware you use to control the stuff and where the
    >problems might arise.
    >
    >Thank you very much,
    >negg (Martin Schuster)


    Regards,
    Tony (remove "_" from email address to reply)
  4. JB Seattle

    JB Seattle Guest

    The only complication is that you need a seperate file for each setup for
    each song.
    That is what I do for differing configurations. So for each collection of
    songs sets I have four different versions depending on whether I am solo,
    which modules, etc.
    JB
    "Tony Roe" <a_roe@bigpond.net.au> wrote in message
    news:avakfv875eiuh2ifhplok6lqtkbrmo16bm@4ax.com...
    > I'm just starting to do that, with a couple of twists:
    >
    > With no decent separate Midi synth or Midi-equipped notebook PC, I'm using

    an
    > old Yamaha DB50XG on a SoundBlaster 16. For portability, I plugged them

    into a
    > Toshiba T5200 laptop (big, heavy, no batteries, but still much easier than

    a
    > desktop PC); it has an 11MHz 386 CPU and 6MB RAM, but it runs DOS 6.22 and
    > MegaMid (a DOS Midi file player) faultlessly.
    >
    > But wait - there's more.
    >
    > I'm in a 5 piece band, and we want to use Midi to add to the sound. Work

    for 5
    > piece bands is scarce, and there is more work available for 4/3/2/1 piece

    bands,
    > and even a little for larger (6-9 piece) bands. It is impractical to

    maintain a
    > full repertoire of backing tracks to suit each possible lineup (1 to 9

    piece).
    > What is needed is one set of complete sequenced backings and a method of

    telling
    > the system which players are present on that night, then automatically

    muting
    > the relevant tracks.
    >
    > Midi sequencers can typically handle many tracks, but only 16 Midi

    channels are
    > usually available to convey all that data to the synthesizer(s), so

    several
    > tracks may use the same Midi channel (eg one channel for three trumpet

    parts or
    > three vocal harmony parts, etc). As long as each distinct part uses a

    separate
    > sequencer track with a carefully chosen name, each Midi file can be

    preprocessed
    > before it is played to remove the specific tracks corresponding to the

    live
    > musicians present.
    >
    > The playlist manager and mute controller is just about finished now, but I

    have
    > a lot of work to do to clean up the Midi files rename the tracks (each

    mutable
    > track name must START with a 4 character abbreviation, like bas1, drm1,

    str1,
    > vox1, etc). Vocal parts are a good example of the complication I needed to
    > handle -
    >
    > Vox1, Vox2 etc will be the vocal guide track plus harmonies, voiced to

    sound OK
    > as an instrumental on Midi channel 4. When real vocalists are present,

    some or
    > all of these tracks will be muted. When a harmonizer is present (eg

    Digitech),
    > the remaining unmuted tracks will be rendered by the harmonizer instead of

    the
    > synth (determined by sysex). Where a backup vocalist would sing "ooh" or

    some
    > other synthesizable sound instead of a harmony, then those notes are

    directed to
    > different tracks (eg Vox2oo, Vox3oo, etc) which might all use another

    common
    > Midi channel voiced as "ooh". Further tracks plus a common Midi channel

    may also
    > be set up for the "aah" sounds or other sounds; or the "ooh"s, "aah"s and

    any
    > other synthesizable sounds may be handled by tracks like Vox1ooa, Vox2ooa

    etc,
    > all via a single Midi channel (eg 9) alternating between these voicings as
    > required, provided the song permits it). Those not muted because a

    vocalist is
    > present are rendered by the synthesizer. Any text can be added to the

    track name
    > after the required name and number, eg to record the name of the person

    who
    > usually does that part (eg "Vox1-Sharon").
    >
    > It's not really as complicated as it sounds.
    >
    > On 25 Jun 2003 07:13:52 -0700, neggl@web.de (negg) wrote:
    >
    > >Hi Group,
    > >
    > >Is there someone out there using a MIDI-equipped PC in a live band's
    > >setup (like DR-GIT-BS) as replacement for a keyboarder or for
    > >additional fill sounds?
    > >
    > >I would appreciate being pointed into a direction which software you
    > >use, which hardware you use to control the stuff and where the
    > >problems might arise.
    > >
    > >Thank you very much,
    > >negg (Martin Schuster)

    >
    > Regards,
    > Tony (remove "_" from email address to reply)
    >
  5. Tony Roe

    Tony Roe Guest

    Not at all - in fact that's the whole point of what I'm doing. I have only ONE
    copy of each file, which is edited so each track is properly named.

    Then at the start of each night I click what players are there, then play
    exactly the same Midi files. Before my playlist manager plays each file, it
    calls Gunter Nagler's MIDICOPY to list the file's track numbers and names, then
    it works out a list of track numbers that need to be muted (to account for the
    players that are present), then it calls MIDICOPY again to copy the Midi file to
    a new file TEMP.MID, which is then played. It only adds a second or so to the
    load time.

    One of the biggest problems I had with keeping multiples was that I am
    continually improving the files, which was impossible with multiple copies.

    On Sun, 29 Jun 2003 17:51:12 GMT, "JB Seattle" <shnoozle8@hotmail.com> wrote:
    >The only complication is that you need a seperate file for each setup for
    >each song.
    >That is what I do for differing configurations. So for each collection of
    >songs sets I have four different versions depending on whether I am solo,
    >which modules, etc.
    >JB
    >"Tony Roe" <a_roe@bigpond.net.au> wrote in message
    >news:avakfv875eiuh2ifhplok6lqtkbrmo16bm@4ax.com...
    >> I'm just starting to do that, with a couple of twists:
    >>
    >> With no decent separate Midi synth or Midi-equipped notebook PC, I'm using

    >an
    >> old Yamaha DB50XG on a SoundBlaster 16. For portability, I plugged them

    >into a
    >> Toshiba T5200 laptop (big, heavy, no batteries, but still much easier than

    >a
    >> desktop PC); it has an 11MHz 386 CPU and 6MB RAM, but it runs DOS 6.22 and
    >> MegaMid (a DOS Midi file player) faultlessly.
    >>
    >> But wait - there's more.
    >>
    >> I'm in a 5 piece band, and we want to use Midi to add to the sound. Work

    >for 5
    >> piece bands is scarce, and there is more work available for 4/3/2/1 piece

    >bands,
    >> and even a little for larger (6-9 piece) bands. It is impractical to

    >maintain a
    >> full repertoire of backing tracks to suit each possible lineup (1 to 9

    >piece).
    >> What is needed is one set of complete sequenced backings and a method of

    >telling
    >> the system which players are present on that night, then automatically

    >muting
    >> the relevant tracks.
    >>
    >> Midi sequencers can typically handle many tracks, but only 16 Midi

    >channels are
    >> usually available to convey all that data to the synthesizer(s), so

    >several
    >> tracks may use the same Midi channel (eg one channel for three trumpet

    >parts or
    >> three vocal harmony parts, etc). As long as each distinct part uses a

    >separate
    >> sequencer track with a carefully chosen name, each Midi file can be

    >preprocessed
    >> before it is played to remove the specific tracks corresponding to the

    >live
    >> musicians present.
    >>
    >> The playlist manager and mute controller is just about finished now, but I

    >have
    >> a lot of work to do to clean up the Midi files rename the tracks (each

    >mutable
    >> track name must START with a 4 character abbreviation, like bas1, drm1,

    >str1,
    >> vox1, etc). Vocal parts are a good example of the complication I needed to
    >> handle -
    >>
    >> Vox1, Vox2 etc will be the vocal guide track plus harmonies, voiced to

    >sound OK
    >> as an instrumental on Midi channel 4. When real vocalists are present,

    >some or
    >> all of these tracks will be muted. When a harmonizer is present (eg

    >Digitech),
    >> the remaining unmuted tracks will be rendered by the harmonizer instead of

    >the
    >> synth (determined by sysex). Where a backup vocalist would sing "ooh" or

    >some
    >> other synthesizable sound instead of a harmony, then those notes are

    >directed to
    >> different tracks (eg Vox2oo, Vox3oo, etc) which might all use another

    >common
    >> Midi channel voiced as "ooh". Further tracks plus a common Midi channel

    >may also
    >> be set up for the "aah" sounds or other sounds; or the "ooh"s, "aah"s and

    >any
    >> other synthesizable sounds may be handled by tracks like Vox1ooa, Vox2ooa

    >etc,
    >> all via a single Midi channel (eg 9) alternating between these voicings as
    >> required, provided the song permits it). Those not muted because a

    >vocalist is
    >> present are rendered by the synthesizer. Any text can be added to the

    >track name
    >> after the required name and number, eg to record the name of the person

    >who
    >> usually does that part (eg "Vox1-Sharon").
    >>
    >> It's not really as complicated as it sounds.
    >>
    >> On 25 Jun 2003 07:13:52 -0700, neggl@web.de (negg) wrote:
    >>
    >> >Hi Group,
    >> >
    >> >Is there someone out there using a MIDI-equipped PC in a live band's
    >> >setup (like DR-GIT-BS) as replacement for a keyboarder or for
    >> >additional fill sounds?
    >> >
    >> >I would appreciate being pointed into a direction which software you
    >> >use, which hardware you use to control the stuff and where the
    >> >problems might arise.
    >> >
    >> >Thank you very much,
    >> >negg (Martin Schuster)

    >>
    >> Regards,
    >> Tony (remove "_" from email address to reply)
    >>

    >


    Regards,
    Tony (remove "_" from email address to reply)

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