mixer versus hifi preamp - comaparable sound quality?

Discussion in 'rec.audio.pro' started by Martin Fuchs, Sep 1, 2003.

  1. Martin Fuchs

    Martin Fuchs Guest

    hi -

    I want to buy a new amp for my home Hi-Fi system. I also DJ a bit on
    parties. So here's the question:

    When comparing a decent Stereo-HiFi Amplifier in the 500-1000 $ range to
    a combo with a Mixer + Power-amp in a similar price range, can the mixer
    combo compare to the HiFi-amp in terms of sound quality?

    Or do I have to pay twice or more the money to get comparable sound
    quality with the mixer?

    Thanks for all input, cheers, Martin
  2. >I want to buy a new amp for my home Hi-Fi system. I also DJ a bit on
    >parties. So here's the question:
    >
    >When comparing a decent Stereo-HiFi Amplifier in the 500-1000 $ range to
    >a combo with a Mixer + Power-amp in a similar price range, can the mixer
    >combo compare to the HiFi-amp in terms of sound quality?
    >
    >Or do I have to pay twice or more the money to get comparable sound
    >quality with the mixer?


    If it's one of those toy mixers they sell to DJs, probably not. But a
    good mixer would at least allow you to set up a proper gain structure
    - a facility oddly missing on "hi-fi" units. I'm sure many of the
    audiophiles who criticise the sound of CD are listening to an input
    run into overload.
  3. Don Pearce

    Don Pearce Guest

    On Mon, 01 Sep 2003 13:23:07 +0100, Laurence Payne
    <l@laurenceDELETEpayne.freeserve.co.uk> wrote:

    >>I want to buy a new amp for my home Hi-Fi system. I also DJ a bit on
    >>parties. So here's the question:
    >>
    >>When comparing a decent Stereo-HiFi Amplifier in the 500-1000 $ range to
    >>a combo with a Mixer + Power-amp in a similar price range, can the mixer
    >>combo compare to the HiFi-amp in terms of sound quality?
    >>
    >>Or do I have to pay twice or more the money to get comparable sound
    >>quality with the mixer?

    >
    >If it's one of those toy mixers they sell to DJs, probably not. But a
    >good mixer would at least allow you to set up a proper gain structure
    >- a facility oddly missing on "hi-fi" units. I'm sure many of the
    >audiophiles who criticise the sound of CD are listening to an input
    >run into overload.


    Oddly missing? I can't think of a single reason why I would want a
    mixer on a Hi Fi. WHen would I ever wish to listen simultaneously to a
    CD, tape and radio - even if mixed in musically pleasing proportions?
    A selector switch and minimum crosstalk is what I want from a Hi Fi -
    a mixer? Never.

    d

    _____________________________

    http://www.pearce.uk.com
  4. P Stamler

    P Stamler Guest

    > I'm sure many of the
    >audiophiles who criticise the sound of CD are listening to an input
    >run into overload.


    I doubt it -- most hi-fi preamps (not all, but most) have unbuffered inputs, so
    the first thing the signal hits is the level control. Hard to overload that.

    Peace,
    Paul
  5. Martin Fuchs

    Martin Fuchs Guest

    Laurence Payne wrote:

    >>When comparing a decent Stereo-HiFi Amplifier in the 500-1000 $ range to
    >>a combo with a Mixer + Power-amp in a similar price range, can the mixer
    >>combo compare to the HiFi-amp in terms of sound quality?
    >>

    > If it's one of those toy mixers they sell to DJs, probably not. But a
    > good mixer would at least allow you to set up a proper gain structure
    > - a facility oddly missing on "hi-fi" units.


    That's one of the reasons; I often connect many different sources (my
    mp3 jukebox, PC, Notebook, DJ-CD player) in addition to the HiFi
    components, so with a mixer it would be easier to adjust the different
    levels on certain channels.

    Does anyone have suggestions for "good" (read "non-toy") mixers? A
    friend suggested Mackie equipment, but none of their mixer have a
    crossfader, which I'd like to have.

    thanks for any hints, Martin
  6. area242

    area242 Guest

    "Martin Fuchs" <REMOVEMEmartinDOTfuchs@physik.fu-berlin.de> wrote in message
    news:bivug3$cu1eq$1@uni-berlin.de...
    > Laurence Payne wrote:
    >
    > >>When comparing a decent Stereo-HiFi Amplifier in the 500-1000 $ range to
    > >>a combo with a Mixer + Power-amp in a similar price range, can the mixer
    > >>combo compare to the HiFi-amp in terms of sound quality?
    > >>

    > > If it's one of those toy mixers they sell to DJs, probably not. But a
    > > good mixer would at least allow you to set up a proper gain structure
    > > - a facility oddly missing on "hi-fi" units.

    >
    > That's one of the reasons; I often connect many different sources (my
    > mp3 jukebox, PC, Notebook, DJ-CD player) in addition to the HiFi
    > components, so with a mixer it would be easier to adjust the different
    > levels on certain channels.
    >
    > Does anyone have suggestions for "good" (read "non-toy") mixers? A
    > friend suggested Mackie equipment, but none of their mixer have a
    > crossfader, which I'd like to have.
    >
    > thanks for any hints, Martin


    Look at the Rane DJ mixers. They'll have the functions you're looking for
    (cross-faders) and are high quality mixers at the same time.
  7. Mike Dobony

    Mike Dobony Guest

    "Laurence Payne" <l@laurenceDELETEpayne.freeserve.co.uk> wrote in message
    news:e8e6lv8o2icpshso4jjohgdpk4m4pe8a9r@4ax.com...
    > >I want to buy a new amp for my home Hi-Fi system. I also DJ a bit on
    > >parties. So here's the question:
    > >
    > >When comparing a decent Stereo-HiFi Amplifier in the 500-1000 $ range to
    > >a combo with a Mixer + Power-amp in a similar price range, can the mixer
    > >combo compare to the HiFi-amp in terms of sound quality?
    > >
    > >Or do I have to pay twice or more the money to get comparable sound
    > >quality with the mixer?

    >
    > If it's one of those toy mixers they sell to DJs, probably not. But a
    > good mixer would at least allow you to set up a proper gain structure
    > - a facility oddly missing on "hi-fi" units. I'm sure many of the
    > audiophiles who criticise the sound of CD are listening to an input
    > run into overload.


    Not if you run it properly through the digital output! This makes a
    tremendous difference in quality!

    --
    Mike D.

    www.stopassaultnow.org

    Remove .spamnot to respond by email



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  8. Arny Krueger

    Arny Krueger Guest

    "Laurence Payne" <l@laurenceDELETEpayne.freeserve.co.uk> wrote in
    message news:e8e6lv8o2icpshso4jjohgdpk4m4pe8a9r@4ax.com

    >> I want to buy a new amp for my home Hi-Fi system. I also DJ a bit on
    >> parties. So here's the question:


    >> When comparing a decent Stereo-HiFi Amplifier in the 500-1000 $
    >> range to a combo with a Mixer + Power-amp in a similar price range,
    >> can the mixer combo compare to the HiFi-amp in terms of sound
    >> quality?


    >> Or do I have to pay twice or more the money to get comparable sound
    >> quality with the mixer?


    Ironically, it takes zero active circuitry to drive just about any practical
    basic audio amp to full output with the output of a typical CD player. IOW a
    good 5-10K dual pot in a box with some connectors can and is an effective
    replacement for an audiophile preamp. Audiophiles call these "passive
    preamps" and are widely used by perfectionists.

    I have one and it works just fine! I've probably built a half dozen of them
    in my life and were all gloriously effective. You just don't try to drive
    50' of shielded cable with a passive preamp!

    > If it's one of those toy mixers they sell to DJs, probably not.


    I don't think that one can really dismiss all DJ mixers if that's what you
    are saying. I think there may be toy mixers other than those sold to DJs.

    I dunno, I've never really looked at how technically competent a low-end
    Behringer sub-$50 mixer is. It seems scary, but in this day and age you can
    buy a portable CD player for $30 that doesn't measure half bad.

    > But a good mixer would at least allow you to set up a proper gain

    structure
    > - a facility oddly missing on "hi-fi" units. I'm sure many of the
    > audiophiles who criticize the sound of CD are listening to an input
    > run into overload.


    The point was well-made that most traditional audiophile preamps and amps
    have unbuffered volume controls that are difficult to overload with any
    reasonable source.

    I've studied the issue of people who criticize the sound of CDs extensively
    and find it to be far more complex than just simple equipment overload.
  9. Sugarite

    Sugarite Guest

    > > If it's one of those toy mixers they sell to DJs, probably not. But a
    > > good mixer would at least allow you to set up a proper gain structure
    > > - a facility oddly missing on "hi-fi" units. I'm sure many of the
    > > audiophiles who criticise the sound of CD are listening to an input
    > > run into overload.


    Obviously you sure aren't an audiophile. The principle argument was jitter,
    and it was a valid one until the buffering in DVD players eliminated it.

    > Not if you run it properly through the digital output! This makes a
    > tremendous difference in quality!


    Only if you're silly enough to buy both a CD player with an insufficient dac
    and a receiver with a good dac, which also generally means getting a
    surround decoder, 3 superfluous amps, and tuner in the same package. You'll
    have a very hard time finding a surround receiver that beats the dac in
    Toshiba DVD players in tandem with any reasonable amp.
  10. On Mon, 01 Sep 2003 13:32:44 +0100, Don Pearce <donald@pearce.uk.com>
    wrote:
    >A selector switch and minimum crosstalk is what I want from a Hi Fi -
    >a mixer? Never.


    Since I have my hi-fi attached to my patchbay, I can do stuff like run
    the 2nd speaker outpt through a reverb unit and then into a separate
    pair of "surround" speakers. Not audiophile results, but add some
    interest to the Listening Experience.

    --


    Willie K. Yee, M.D. http://www.bestweb.net/~wkyee
    Developer of Problem Knowledge Couplers for Psychiatry http://www.pkc.com
    Webmaster and Guitarist for the Big Blue Big Band http://www.bigbluebigband.org
  11. Don Pearce

    Don Pearce Guest

    On Tue, 02 Sep 2003 10:28:00 GMT, wkyee@bestweb.netttttttttttttttt
    (Willie K.Yee, M.D.) wrote:

    >On Mon, 01 Sep 2003 13:32:44 +0100, Don Pearce <donald@pearce.uk.com>
    >wrote:
    >>A selector switch and minimum crosstalk is what I want from a Hi Fi -
    >>a mixer? Never.

    >
    >Since I have my hi-fi attached to my patchbay, I can do stuff like run
    >the 2nd speaker outpt through a reverb unit and then into a separate
    >pair of "surround" speakers. Not audiophile results, but add some
    >interest to the Listening Experience.


    But what are you doing with a patch bay in your sitting room? Minimum
    technocrap should be the aim there, surely?

    d

    _____________________________

    http://www.pearce.uk.com
  12. Arny Krueger

    Arny Krueger Guest

    "Sugarite" <nobody@home.com> wrote in message
    news:_3Y4b.6578$Pa1.311958@read1.cgocable.net

    >>> If it's one of those toy mixers they sell to DJs, probably not.
    >>> But a good mixer would at least allow you to set up a proper gain
    >>> structure
    >>> - a facility oddly missing on "hi-fi" units. I'm sure many of the
    >>> audiophiles who criticise the sound of CD are listening to an input
    >>> run into overload.


    > Obviously you sure aren't an audiophile. The principle argument was
    > jitter, and it was a valid one until the buffering in DVD players
    > eliminated it.


    CD players have always had gobs of buffering. If you want to see jitter big
    time, check the bitstream coming in off the output of the pickup photo
    transistor's preamp.

    Ironically while it had a number of potentially audible faults, even the
    original Sony CDP-101 would qualify as being a low-jitter product, even by
    modern standards.

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