OT: Political correctness is killing us (literally)

Discussion in 'rec.music.guitar' started by Odin, Aug 12, 2003.

  1. Odin

    Odin Guest

    "Reign_Of_Error" <reign_of_error@hotmail.com> wrote in message

    > Isn't the concept of "I'm a minority - I'm a straight white man" shit
    > getting a little bit old and tired?


    Isn't the concept of "my grandfather's grandfather's grandfather's
    grandfatehr was a slave so I deserve special treatment and reparations"
    getting a little bit old and tired?


    > Do you guys really think all this
    > bullshit you are carrying on with actually new/innovative/shedding on
    > issues of race and affirmative action?


    No, everyone knows that affirmative action is discrimination, plain and
    simple.


    > Odin, your guitar playing sucks
    > ass (yes, I've heard your clips)


    That's true, but I'm better than you, so go figure.


    > and your attempts at social
    > commentary are pathetic.


    Translation: The truth hurts.


    > Fuck off already.


    Don't beg, it makes you look as cheap as your sister.
  2. Odin

    Odin Guest

    Re: Political correctness is killing us (literally)

    "Jonny Durango" <jonnydurango1nospam@comcast.net> wrote in message

    > It's pretty comvenient to blame all of Dallas's crime problem on the
    > appointment of one Chief....I'm not a big fan of affirmative action

    either
    > (for the exact reason you convey here), but your committing an

    argumentative
    > fallacy by pointing out one injustive and blaming the whole problem on

    that
    > one thing without any evidence to back up your claim (the Evans case

    doesn't
    > show that Bolton is responsible for the higher crime rate)....I'm sure it

    is
    > much more complex.


    By no means am I saying that chief Bolton is *solely* responsible for the
    highest crime rate in the nation because he is black or because he is the
    product of affirmative actions. The actual responsibility for the crime
    rate in Dallas rests with the criminals. But chief Bolton is solely
    responsible for the ways that the DPD prevents and fights crime. He has
    chosen to alienate the department from outside resources (Dallas County
    DA's office, FBI, etc...), he has chosen to take actions that lower morale,
    he has chosen to take officers from investigative units to put them in
    patrol which lowers the solvency rate of crimes (yet his increased patrols
    have not resulted in an lower crime rate) and he basically has no idea how
    to run a 3000 member police force. Put it this way, Bolton's latest claim
    to fame, in the city with the highest crime rate in the nation, is to have
    dozens of officers conduct "rolling road blocks" in Dallas rush hour
    traffic on the freeways. He gets 5 or 6 patrol cars to drive side by side
    at 55mph all over the highways in the morning so that people are unable to
    speed. The sheer amount of officers and cars that this requires
    (especially when done in several locations at once) is ridiculous, and
    while he poses for the cameras and talks about rolling road blocks the
    crime rate soars. Bottom line, the guy is responsible for Dallas having
    the highest crime rate in the nation.
  3. Atlas

    Atlas Guest

    x-no-archive: yes

    On 14 Aug 2003 19:44:16 -0700, reign_of_error@hotmail.com
    (Reign_Of_Error) wrote:

    >Isn't the concept of "I'm a minority - I'm a straight white man" shit
    >getting a little bit old and tired?


    Perhaps. But it's nowhere near as dumb a concept as is
    affirmative action.

    >Do you guys really think all this
    >bullshit you are carrying on with actually new/innovative/shedding on
    >issues of race and affirmative action?


    Nice sentence structure.

    >Odin, your guitar playing sucks
    >ass (yes, I've heard your clips)


    I've heard Odin's clips. He's not too bad at all. There are
    some really fine players in this group (my fav. being Andy Most). And
    there are some real blowhards. Odin's not as good as Andy...(who
    is?), but his playing certainly doesn't suck ass.

    >and your attempts at social
    >commentary are pathetic.


    You don't agree with his philosophies. Fine. You're
    certainly entitled to your whiny-ass, intellectually impoverished
    opinion. ;)

    >Fuck off already.


    Nice.


    Atlas


    P.S. Your online handle "Reign of Error" is absolutely perfect for a
    liberal.
  4. ryanm

    ryanm Guest

    "Grant" <gpetty@aos.wisc.edu> wrote in message
    news:bhh9tv$cd0$1@news.doit.wisc.edu...
    >
    > I think that RACE is no longer the issue. It's economic/cultural
    > background. I know people who are members of "traditionally
    > disadvantaged" racial minorities who are well-educated and successful
    > members of the middle class. For these people, race appears to create
    > no serious barriers, at least in the region where I live. There is no
    > apparent reason, to my eye at least, why their children should be
    > treated differently than white middle class kids for school admissions
    > and similar purposes. It's also interesting that in many of these
    > cases, the persons in question weren't born in the U.S. but immigrated
    > from a country where they were in the majority, and where they were
    > already a member of at least the middle class.
    >
    > On the other hand, I think that people born and raised in one of our
    > worse ghettos (or maybe a run down trailer park in Kentucky) is going
    > have trouble gaining entry to the middle class if he/she is Caucasian.
    >
    > In short, my problem with *racial* affirmative action is that race is
    > only *correlated* with being born and raised under very difficult
    > circumstances, it is not a one-to-one relationship. In fact, it's a
    > kind of blatant racism in the sense that it says, "if you have dark
    > skin, then we're going to help you whether you need it or not, and if
    > you're white, you're not going to get any help even if you need it."
    >
    > If it were up to me, affirmative action programs would be refocused so
    > that economic and cultural tests (e.g., has anyone in this kid's family
    > ever graduated from high school?) are utilized rather than tests based
    > on physiological race.
    >

    Well stated.

    ryanm
  5. 'nuther Bob

    'nuther Bob Guest

    Re: Political correctness is killing us (literally)

    On Fri, 15 Aug 2003 04:00:33 GMT, "Odin" <res0jmoj@REMOVEverizon.net>
    wrote:


    >It's a biased means of
    >investigation that subjects innocent people to suspicion, but it doesn't
    >violate any civil rights and it is based in sound logic.


    I like to be careful to avoid falling into the pit with Ed Meese, who
    once said in regards to the Constitutional rights of our citizens: "If
    they hadn't done something wrong, they wouldn't be suspects".

    That said, I agree with what you say as applied to non-US citizens. If
    you are in our country or boarding a plan for our country and are not
    a US citizen, then you have *no* rights under the Constitution. While
    I agree that you get basic human rights and reasonable treatment, I
    don't think that "profiling" non-citizens and asking a few extra
    questions or doing extra background checks is in any way a violation
    of the Constitution. No how, no way.

    Bob
  6. "Odin" <res0jmoj@REMOVEverizon.net> wrote in message news:<n%Y_a.11804$aW3.2852@nwrddc02.gnilink.net>...

    Wow, is this the best you can do? You are more even more impotent than
    I ever suspected. A "your sister" joke? I thought your comments were
    half-witted enough before the "your sister" joke.

    Fuck man, you are so incredibly lame. Do you derive some sort of
    perverse pleasure out of looking like a total fool in front of your
    peers? Do you even realize it?

    > "Reign_Of_Error" <reign_of_error@hotmail.com> wrote in message
    >
    > > Isn't the concept of "I'm a minority - I'm a straight white man" shit
    > > getting a little bit old and tired?

    >
    > Isn't the concept of "my grandfather's grandfather's grandfather's
    > grandfatehr was a slave so I deserve special treatment and reparations"
    > getting a little bit old and tired?
    >
    >
    > > Do you guys really think all this
    > > bullshit you are carrying on with actually new/innovative/shedding on
    > > issues of race and affirmative action?

    >
    > No, everyone knows that affirmative action is discrimination, plain and
    > simple.
    >
    >
    > > Odin, your guitar playing sucks
    > > ass (yes, I've heard your clips)

    >
    > That's true, but I'm better than you, so go figure.
    >
    >
    > > and your attempts at social
    > > commentary are pathetic.

    >
    > Translation: The truth hurts.
    >
    >
    > > Fuck off already.

    >
    > Don't beg, it makes you look as cheap as your sister.
  7. 'nuther Bob

    'nuther Bob Guest

    On 15 Aug 2003 14:27:14 -0700, reign_of_error@hotmail.com
    (Reign_Of_Error) wrote:


    >Fuck man, you are so incredibly lame. Do you derive some sort of
    >perverse pleasure out of looking like a total fool in front of your
    >peers? Do you even realize it?


    Is this the best troll you can do ? Create a new hotmail account and
    post from Google ? You need to go back to troll school if you want to
    hang with the professional trolls my friend. Now scat, you've been
    spanked.

    Bob
  8. Re: Political correctness is killing us (literally)

    As "Odin" <res0jmoj@REMOVEverizon.net> so eloquently put:
    [] "gozy" <gozy@hotmail.comNOSPAM> wrote in message
    []
    [] > Profiling is not discrimination. If the police are searching for a left
    [] > handed person, they are not discriminating against left handed people,
    [] they
    [] > are resonably limiting their search, which is what you illustrate.
    []
    [] You're right, but racial profiling is looking for suspects without knowing
    [] that the suspect are of a certain race, but simply looking closely at the
    [] race that has most often committed like crimes.

    Good definition of racial discrimination.

    [] It's a biased means of
    [] investigation that subjects innocent people to suspicion, but it doesn't
    [] violate any civil rights and it is based in sound logic.

    But it's still racial discrimination. Every time I walk into Tower
    Records and see that the only CDs wrapped in a security package are
    high-profile RAP releases, I know that they are discriminating.

    Sound security logic or not, it is discrimination. Violating civil
    rights? Perhaps not, but it is still racial discrimination.

    Chris

    ----
    "...there would have been no Holdsworth or
    Hendrix without the genius of Boxcar Willie"
    -- Mark Garvin
    Remove X's from my email address above to reply
    [These opinions are personal views only and only my personal views]
  9. As Grant <gpetty@aos.wisc.edu> so eloquently put:
    [] 'nuther Bob wrote:
    [] >
    [] > Oh, OK, that was understandable. I agree. Equality is equality. For
    [] > a while there may have been a need to give an advantage to those
    [] > who had been long discriminated against. I think that need has
    [] > passed.
    []
    []
    [] I think that RACE is no longer the issue. It's economic/cultural
    [] background. I know people who are members of "traditionally
    [] disadvantaged" racial minorities who are well-educated and successful
    [] members of the middle class. For these people, race appears to create
    [] no serious barriers, at least in the region where I live.

    Sure, there are "examples". This is in no way evidence that racial
    bias no longer exists.

    [] There is no
    [] apparent reason, to my eye at least, why their children should be
    [] treated differently than white middle class kids for school admissions
    [] and similar purposes.

    And yet, it still occurs.

    [] It's also interesting that in many of these
    [] cases, the persons in question weren't born in the U.S. but immigrated
    [] from a country where they were in the majority, and where they were
    [] already a member of at least the middle class.

    How many? Are you really prepared to show that few US born citizens
    are not exposed to racial bias?

    [] On the other hand, I think that people born and raised in one of our
    [] worse ghettos (or maybe a run down trailer park in Kentucky) is going
    [] have trouble gaining entry to the middle class if he/she is Caucasian.

    Being born into a poverty state does not equate to racial bias.
    They're two totally different issues.

    [] In short, my problem with *racial* affirmative action is that race is
    [] only *correlated* with being born and raised under very difficult
    [] circumstances, it is not a one-to-one relationship. In fact, it's a
    [] kind of blatant racism in the sense that it says, "if you have dark
    [] skin, then we're going to help you whether you need it or not, and if
    [] you're white, you're not going to get any help even if you need it."

    I'm am commenting here only on your comments of racial bias in
    general. Affirmative action is a political issue. You need to separate
    them, to be fair.

    [] If it were up to me, affirmative action programs would be refocused so
    [] that economic and cultural tests (e.g., has anyone in this kid's family
    [] ever graduated from high school?) are utilized rather than tests based
    [] on physiological race.

    That would be a different program, altogether.

    ----
    "...there would have been no Holdsworth or
    Hendrix without the genius of Boxcar Willie"
    -- Mark Garvin
    Remove X's from my email address above to reply
    [These opinions are personal views only and only my personal views]
  10. Les Cargill

    Les Cargill Guest

    Re: Political correctness is killing us (literally)

    Not A Speck Of Cereal wrote:
    >
    > As "Odin" <res0jmoj@REMOVEverizon.net> so eloquently put:
    > [] "gozy" <gozy@hotmail.comNOSPAM> wrote in message
    > []
    > [] > Profiling is not discrimination. If the police are searching for a left
    > [] > handed person, they are not discriminating against left handed people,
    > [] they
    > [] > are resonably limiting their search, which is what you illustrate.
    > []
    > [] You're right, but racial profiling is looking for suspects without knowing
    > [] that the suspect are of a certain race, but simply looking closely at the
    > [] race that has most often committed like crimes.
    >
    > Good definition of racial discrimination.
    >
    > [] It's a biased means of
    > [] investigation that subjects innocent people to suspicion, but it doesn't
    > [] violate any civil rights and it is based in sound logic.
    >
    > But it's still racial discrimination. Every time I walk into Tower
    > Records and see that the only CDs wrapped in a security package are
    > high-profile RAP releases, I know that they are discriminating.
    >


    That could be a marketing ploy. Y'know, using the "PARENTS
    ADVISORY" sticker as an eye catcher?

    Since the principal market for rap is suburban melanin-deprived male
    youngsters, I rather doubt it indicates anything of a serious
    racial nature. Or is Eminem just that darned good?


    > Sound security logic or not, it is discrimination. Violating civil
    > rights? Perhaps not, but it is still racial discrimination.
    >


    Or it might just be really clever packaging. One never knows, these
    days.

    > Chris
    >
    > ----
    > "...there would have been no Holdsworth or
    > Hendrix without the genius of Boxcar Willie"
    > -- Mark Garvin
    > Remove X's from my email address above to reply
    > [These opinions are personal views only and only my personal views]



    --
    Les Cargill
  11. 'nuther Bob

    'nuther Bob Guest

    Re: Political correctness is killing us (literally)

    On Sat, 16 Aug 2003 05:08:30 GMT, Not A Speck Of Cereal
    <XchrissherwoodX@Xcomcast.netX> wrote:

    >But it's still racial discrimination. Every time I walk into Tower
    >Records and see that the only CDs wrapped in a security package are
    >high-profile RAP releases, I know that they are discriminating.
    >
    >Sound security logic or not, it is discrimination. Violating civil
    >rights? Perhaps not, but it is still racial discrimination.


    Actually, it's you who is discriminating, by assuming that only blacks
    listen to RAP (Assuming you are not discriminating against greasy,
    looking punks with too many tatoos, too baggy pants, and too little
    facial hair to grow a real beard - sort of like enemyM&M.)

    If those are the CD's that suffer a high theft rate, then they should
    be placed under more security. I can't imagine that management
    actively says "black kids steal these, lets make them secure".

    Bob
  12. ryanm

    ryanm Guest

    Re: Political correctness is killing us (literally)

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    "'nuther Bob" <nooneyet@nowwhere.net> wrote in message
    news:s0lsjvsi645advki1g9g2l7le8upigei03@4ax.com...
    >
    > Actually, it's you who is discriminating, by assuming that only blacks
    > listen to RAP (Assuming you are not discriminating against greasy,
    > looking punks with too many tatoos, too baggy pants, and too little
    > facial hair to grow a real beard - sort of like enemyM&M.)
    >
    > If those are the CD's that suffer a high theft rate, then they should
    > be placed under more security. I can't imagine that management
    > actively says "black kids steal these, lets make them secure".
    >

    We already know that Chris hides his racism and bigotry behind a facade
    of being overly sensitive, not that anyone is buying it. He's offended for
    them, even if they don't know they should be offended.

    ryanm
  13. Re: Political correctness is killing us (literally)

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    As 'nuther Bob <nooneyet@nowwhere.net> so eloquently put:
    [] On Sat, 16 Aug 2003 05:08:30 GMT, Not A Speck Of Cereal
    [] <XchrissherwoodX@Xcomcast.netX> wrote:
    []
    [] >But it's still racial discrimination. Every time I walk into Tower
    [] >Records and see that the only CDs wrapped in a security package are
    [] >high-profile RAP releases, I know that they are discriminating.
    [] >
    [] >Sound security logic or not, it is discrimination. Violating civil
    [] >rights? Perhaps not, but it is still racial discrimination.
    []
    [] Actually, it's you who is discriminating, by assuming that only blacks
    [] listen to RAP (Assuming you are not discriminating against greasy,
    [] looking punks with too many tatoos, too baggy pants, and too little
    [] facial hair to grow a real beard - sort of like enemyM&M.)
    []
    [] If those are the CD's that suffer a high theft rate, then they should
    [] be placed under more security. I can't imagine that management
    [] actively says "black kids steal these, lets make them secure".

    Okay, you got me there. I too listen to some rap.

    But it does still seem like a form of discrimination. "Those
    individuals who listen to this genre are likely the criminal sort". As
    a non-criminal some-times rap genre music purchaser, I do feel
    somewhat slighted.

    Chris

    ----
    "...there would have been no Holdsworth or
    Hendrix without the genius of Boxcar Willie"
    -- Mark Garvin
    Remove X's from my email address above to reply
    [These opinions are personal views only and only my personal views]
  14. ryanm

    ryanm Guest

    Re: Political correctness is killing us (literally)

    "Not A Speck Of Cereal" <XchrissherwoodX@Xcomcast.netX> wrote in message
    news:jri0kvshmt88lee0s1p609brlnj324eivc@4ax.com...
    >
    > Okay, you got me there. I too listen to some rap.
    >
    > But it does still seem like a form of discrimination. "Those
    > individuals who listen to this genre are likely the criminal sort". As
    > a non-criminal some-times rap genre music purchaser, I do feel
    > somewhat slighted.
    >

    Again, you're being overly sensitive. There is nothing wrong with
    discrimination, it is by definition (according to Webster's): "To make a
    clear distinction; distinguish". None of which has anything to do with a
    retail store putting higher security on items that are stolen more often,
    any more than it is discriminatory for 7/11 to put cigarettes behind the
    counter. These are items that have a history of being stolen more often, it
    is not only their right but their responsibility, as store owners, to put
    higher security on them. Calm down, take a deep breath, and let people get
    offended for themselves, rather than being offended for them all the time.

    ryanm
  15. 'nuther Bob

    'nuther Bob Guest

    Re: Political correctness is killing us (literally)

    On Sun, 17 Aug 2003 23:19:40 -0600, "ryanm"
    <ryanm@fatchicksinpartyhats.com> wrote:

    >"Those
    >> individuals who listen to this genre are likely the criminal sort". As
    >> a non-criminal some-times rap genre music purchaser, I do feel
    >> somewhat slighted.
    >>


    I'd say it's more "these CD's seem to be disappearing from the stores
    at an alarming rate.". It does cost them more to put the anti-theft
    devices on CD's - I don't think they'd bother if they weren't being
    stolen.

    Bob
  16. Steve

    Steve Guest

  17. Odin

    Odin Guest

    Re: Political correctness is killing us (literally)

    "Not A Speck Of Cereal" <XchrissherwoodX@Xcomcast.netX> wrote in message

    > But it's still racial discrimination. Every time I walk into Tower
    > Records and see that the only CDs wrapped in a security package are
    > high-profile RAP releases, I know that they are discriminating.
    >
    > Sound security logic or not, it is discrimination. Violating civil
    > rights? Perhaps not, but it is still racial discrimination.


    Negatory. It's called common sense. If 50 Cent CD's are getting stolen by
    the dozen and Barbara Mandrell CD's are never stolen, and the security
    packaging costs the retailer $1 per CD, then securing the 50 Cent CD's and
    not the Barbara Mandrell CD's is NOT racial discrimination, it's just plain
    common sense on the part of a businessman trying to stay profitable. Never
    mind the fact that most of the rap CD's are bought by white kids from the
    suburbs.
  18. Odin

    Odin Guest

    "Reign_Of_Error" <reign_of_error@hotmail.com> topposted a troll in message

    > Wow, is this the best you can do?


    That's what I asked your sister.


    > You are more even more impotent than
    > I ever suspected.


    That's what she told your father.


    > A "your sister" joke? I thought your comments were
    > half-witted enough before the "your sister" joke.


    Fine, just try to have her bathed and ready when I get there next time.


    > Fuck man, you are so incredibly lame. Do you derive some sort of
    > perverse pleasure out of looking like a total fool in front of your
    > peers? Do you even realize it?


    You're not my peer, you're my bitch. HTH.



    > > "Reign_Of_Error" <reign_of_error@hotmail.com> wrote in message
    > >
    > > > Isn't the concept of "I'm a minority - I'm a straight white man" shit
    > > > getting a little bit old and tired?

    > >
    > > Isn't the concept of "my grandfather's grandfather's grandfather's
    > > grandfatehr was a slave so I deserve special treatment and reparations"
    > > getting a little bit old and tired?
    > >
    > >
    > > > Do you guys really think all this
    > > > bullshit you are carrying on with actually new/innovative/shedding on
    > > > issues of race and affirmative action?

    > >
    > > No, everyone knows that affirmative action is discrimination, plain and
    > > simple.
    > >
    > >
    > > > Odin, your guitar playing sucks
    > > > ass (yes, I've heard your clips)

    > >
    > > That's true, but I'm better than you, so go figure.
    > >
    > >
    > > > and your attempts at social
    > > > commentary are pathetic.

    > >
    > > Translation: The truth hurts.
    > >
    > >
    > > > Fuck off already.

    > >
    > > Don't beg, it makes you look as cheap as your sister.
  19. Re: Political correctness is killing us (literally)

    "Odin" <res0jmoj@REMOVEverizon.net> wrote in message
    news:SQB1b.2751$vy5.2339@nwrddc01.gnilink.net...
    >
    > "Not A Speck Of Cereal" <XchrissherwoodX@Xcomcast.netX> wrote in message
    >
    > > But it's still racial discrimination. Every time I walk into Tower
    > > Records and see that the only CDs wrapped in a security package are
    > > high-profile RAP releases, I know that they are discriminating.
    > >
    > > Sound security logic or not, it is discrimination. Violating civil
    > > rights? Perhaps not, but it is still racial discrimination.

    >
    > Negatory. It's called common sense. If 50 Cent CD's are getting stolen

    by
    > the dozen and Barbara Mandrell CD's are never stolen, and the security
    > packaging costs the retailer $1 per CD, then securing the 50 Cent CD's and
    > not the Barbara Mandrell CD's is NOT racial discrimination, it's just

    plain
    > common sense on the part of a businessman trying to stay profitable.

    Never
    > mind the fact that most of the rap CD's are bought by white kids from the
    > suburbs.
    >
    >

    I can tell you right now, that you'll never get Mr. ACLU/Sherwood to believe
    that. And, btw, you mis-spelled 'stolen by white kids from the suburbs'. HTH
    ;+)
  20. "Odin" <res0jmoj@REMOVEverizon.net> trolled in message
    news:<yTB1b.2763$vy5.1242@nwrddc01.gnilink.net>...

    Yawn. Why do you bother?

    > "Reign_Of_Error" <reign_of_error@hotmail.com> topposted a troll in message
    >
    > > Wow, is this the best you can do?

    >
    > That's what I asked your sister.
    >
    >
    > > You are more even more impotent than
    > > I ever suspected.

    >
    > That's what she told your father.
    >
    >
    > > A "your sister" joke? I thought your comments were
    > > half-witted enough before the "your sister" joke.

    >
    > Fine, just try to have her bathed and ready when I get there next time.
    >
    >
    > > Fuck man, you are so incredibly lame. Do you derive some sort of
    > > perverse pleasure out of looking like a total fool in front of your
    > > peers? Do you even realize it?

    >
    > You're not my peer, you're my bitch. HTH.
    >
    >
    >
    > > > "Reign_Of_Error" <reign_of_error@hotmail.com> wrote in message
    > > >
    > > > > Isn't the concept of "I'm a minority - I'm a straight white man" shit
    > > > > getting a little bit old and tired?
    > > >
    > > > Isn't the concept of "my grandfather's grandfather's grandfather's
    > > > grandfatehr was a slave so I deserve special treatment and reparations"
    > > > getting a little bit old and tired?
    > > >
    > > >
    > > > > Do you guys really think all this
    > > > > bullshit you are carrying on with actually new/innovative/shedding on
    > > > > issues of race and affirmative action?
    > > >
    > > > No, everyone knows that affirmative action is discrimination, plain and
    > > > simple.
    > > >
    > > >
    > > > > Odin, your guitar playing sucks
    > > > > ass (yes, I've heard your clips)
    > > >
    > > > That's true, but I'm better than you, so go figure.
    > > >
    > > >
    > > > > and your attempts at social
    > > > > commentary are pathetic.
    > > >
    > > > Translation: The truth hurts.
    > > >
    > > >
    > > > > Fuck off already.
    > > >
    > > > Don't beg, it makes you look as cheap as your sister.

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