OT: The Ten comandments.

Discussion in 'rec.music.percussion' started by NoSheeples, Aug 28, 2003.

  1. Glenn Dowdy

    Glenn Dowdy Guest

    <bjacoby@users.iwaynet.net> wrote in message
    news:binri7$e92$2@tribune.oar.net...
    > Da Parrot-chick <just@sk.me> wrote:
    >
    > > If people want to worship on their own, in churches, temples, or

    whatever
    > > places of worship, I'll defend that as long as I live. But I do wish

    they'd
    > > quit trying to convert me in the process.

    >
    > Ah yes. We get it. If all those happy darkies would just keep singing
    > songs and working the fields and stay out of our faces with demands
    > that they are people the same as anyone else it'd be a perfect world.
    >
    > Right Parrot-chick, we see where you are coming from.
    >

    Poor analogy IMO. P-C seems to say that everyone should have the same
    freedoms and rights but doesn't like the constant conversion attempts.
    Evangelicals want everyone to be exactly like them. A little different
    position, and your response was beneath you.

    Glenn D.
  2. Glenn Dowdy

    Glenn Dowdy Guest

    Re: The Ten comandments.

    "Joey Furr" <joeyfurr@yahoo.com> wrote in message
    news:ptucndSErMeeBdOiXTWJkw@comcast.com...
    > Glenn-D,
    > We could probably quote things at each other and make this another
    > incredibly long thread...


    It'll be a long thread even without our point-counterpoint efforts. ;) What
    we have shown is that those guys have shown tendencies to espouse either
    side at times, so we really can't tell what they truly believed.

    >
    > ...but I think we'll just have to agree to disagree and get back to
    > drummin'!!
    >

    I'm still in the Bay Area, so I won't get back to drumming until this
    weekend. Speaking of long threads, this one post was pretty damn long by
    itself.

    Glenn D.
  3. Adam

    Adam Guest

    (bjacoby@users.iwaynet.net) wrote:

    > Da Parrot-chick <just@sk.me> wrote:
    >
    >> If people want to worship on their own, in churches, temples,
    >> or whatever places of worship, I'll defend that as long as I
    >> live. But I do wish they'd quit trying to convert me in the
    >> process.

    >
    > Ah yes. We get it. If all those happy darkies would just keep
    > singing songs and working the fields and stay out of our faces
    > with demands that they are people the same as anyone else it'd
    > be a perfect world.
    >
    > Right Parrot-chick, we see where you are coming from.


    Come on Ben, that wasnt what he meant and you know it. I'd have
    expected better from you of all people.
    Play nice, children.

    --
    <INSERT SIG HERE>
  4. Glenn Dowdy

    Glenn Dowdy Guest

    Re: The Ten comandments.

    "Phil Duncan" <lucento@fakemail.org> wrote in message
    news:d70d49a4.0308290520.2b005c60@posting.google.com...
    > And
    > fourthly, that he was no babe, but a great clerk


    I resent the implication that accountants are not "hotties".

    Glenn D.
  5. Glenn Dowdy

    Glenn Dowdy Guest

    Re: The Ten comandments.

    "Mark Rance" <mrr@pcisys.network> wrote in message
    news:vktslb4i79mnc4@corp.supernews.com...
    >
    > "Glenn Dowdy" <glenn.dowdy@nospam.com> wrote in message
    > news:T0u3b.3617$vH6.2400@news.cpqcorp.net...
    > >
    > > <bjacoby@users.iwaynet.net> wrote in message
    > > news:bilboa$l7p$2@tribune.oar.net...
    > > >
    > > > Of course times change
    > > > slowly and I can imagine some courts in the boonies where the
    > > > bible thing is still enforced.
    > > >

    > > Like in my hometown of Montgomery. ;)

    >
    > and Denver
    >

    Denver's worse than the Springs? The mind boggles.

    Glenn D.
  6. <bjacoby@users.iwaynet.net> wrote in message
    news:binri7$e92$2@tribune.oar.net...
    > Da Parrot-chick <just@sk.me> wrote:
    >
    > > If people want to worship on their own, in churches, temples, or

    whatever
    > > places of worship, I'll defend that as long as I live. But I do wish

    they'd
    > > quit trying to convert me in the process.

    >
    > Ah yes. We get it. If all those happy darkies would just keep singing
    > songs and working the fields and stay out of our faces with demands
    > that they are people the same as anyone else it'd be a perfect world.


    ???

    > Right Parrot-chick, we see where you are coming from.


    Would you explain it to me, then? You lost me.
  7. Re: The Ten comandments.

    <bjacoby@users.iwaynet.net> wrote in message
    news:binpa2$d4v$1@tribune.oar.net...
    > George Lawrence <drumguru@ameritech.net> wrote:
    > > I will accept that atheism and agnosticism are world views, but not
    > > "religions". Religion can safely be defined in the broadest sense as

    man's
    > > expression of his acknowledgement of the divine. Because neither atheism

    and
    > > agnosticism acknowledge the divine, they are not religions. They are the
    > > lack of religion.

    >
    > Yes, saying that has been a ploy of the atheists, agnostics etc.
    > for some time, and worded as you word it makes sense. But I say
    > religion is not solely defined as an "expression of his acknowledgement
    > of the divine". Yes, Religion as found in organized churches definitely
    > is "religion". But that isn't quite enough. The Dictionary puts it
    > this way: "A system of beliefs held to with ardor and faith".


    Right. Atheists and agnostics want proof. You can't have faith and demand
    proof at the same time. Faith is the most necessary part of religion, no?
    Even God says so--it's the first commandment. Believe in Me and Me only.

    > I don't know about you, but that SURE describes atheists to me.
    > It's not just a "world view" because it does take postions
    > on supreme being(s), afterlife, etc.


    I suppose indifference is a position. I don't know of any atheists who go
    on crusades to get the faithful to ditch their religion and not care about
    it anymore, though.

    What that position is
    > is not important what is import is that the system is
    > held with "ardor an faith". Thus it seems to follow that it's
    > not atheists, agnostics and the like who are without religion,
    > but rather the only folks who truly have "no religion" are
    > the people who could give a rat's ass about the topic!


    Only problem with that is, the fundamentalists enter at that point and try
    to change the laws to favor their religion over others. That's when the law
    steps in.

    > Therefore, it follows quite logically at all the folks
    > screaming "separation of church and state" when ever
    > some object appears in public clearly DO have "ardor and
    > faith" and are thus trying to establish as the "state
    > religion" their religion!
    >
    > Q.E.D.


    Wow, man.

    > Benj
    > (Now where the hell are my meds?)


    I didn't touch 'em--we're on different prescriptions :)
  8. Glenn Dowdy

    Glenn Dowdy Guest

    Re: The Ten comandments.

    <bjacoby@users.iwaynet.net> wrote in message
    news:bims8d$oho$1@tribune.oar.net...
    > George Lawrence <drumguru@ameritech.net> wrote:
    >
    > I don't know where you get the "fundy" slur, but Atheists used to
    > be much better organized than they are now.


    _Some_ atheists were organized. I'd presume a lot just don't care enough to
    organize. Fanatics of any kind banding together worry me.

    > There was a big movement
    > in the U.S. back some years and of course it was the official religion
    > of the USSR. That it is a religion is no stretch. It clearly is a
    > view of the existance of God afterlife and the rest. They reject
    > that existance, but it's still an assertion (without any real proof
    > like all "faith") of a "natural" explanation of any such.


    So is then Agnosticism not a religion because they take no asserted
    position? Besides, atheists don't not believe in God. We don't not believe
    in all the gods.

    >
    > I agree. The battle between Christians and atheists is not really
    > a concern. The concern is when EITHER side attempts to install
    > their views with the endoresement of the state. Christians like
    > the "America is a Christian Country" argument and Atheists have
    > made lots of progress with the "Removal of all other religious
    > symbols is just separation of church and state" ploy. The Government
    > however is required to stay above the fray and endorse neither view
    > as well as not interfere with the practices of any faith.


    The government in the form of elected officials will always do what it takes
    to gain the confidence and approval of 50.1% of the voting public.
    >
    >
    > Which obviously is a view on the subject of a supreme being, afterlife
    > and what have you. It's your personal view and I dare say even though
    > it may be just a personal thing with you and you are not a "church"
    > with meetings and members etc. It's still by definition a religion


    That's _your_ opinion. Doesn't make it fact, or even undebatable.

    >
    > But most of the lawyers (who do the bulk of the pro-bono legal
    > work) are Jewish. The left-wing credentials of the organization
    > are pretty well established though. Which is one reason I believe
    > they are always quick to jump on the "removal of religious symbols"
    > bandwagon. Of course that doesn't make them Atheist. Just supportive
    > of that Atheist position.


    Those damned Jews. They just haven't gotten over that Messiah thing, have
    they? And working for free? Whodathunk?
    >
    > Dowdy said:
    > >> The Klukkers don't burn crosses; they 'light' them. Burning doesn't

    seem
    > >> very Christian, does it? But lighting, well, that's different.

    >
    > <snort> Point well taken! :)


    My bus route to 8th grade took us right by the local Klan house way out in
    the country (1976).
    >
    > >> I've never seen a poster of Ganesh, and he's my favorite Hindu deity.
    > >> Something about the ears...

    >
    > I agree, I'll try to find one for the statehouse lawn next holiday
    > season ... If I can remember! :)


    I don't remember when Ganesh's holy days are, but I'm sure google does.

    >
    > >> Look, when you can understand why you don't believe in all the other

    gods
    > >> like Ganesh, Kane, and Zeus, you'll understand why I don't believe in

    > > yours.

    >
    > Who says I don't believe in Ganesha, Zeus and the rest?


    Mea culpa.
    >
    > >> I'm just a better atheist than you are.

    >
    > Says you!
    >
    > >> And another thing: God hears prayer, right? He knows all, so He can

    make a
    > >> pretty informed decision, and He doesn't forget what He's been asked to

    > > do.

    >
    > Yeah, but there is no requirement to answer.


    I still don't understand the reasoning behind praying for the same thing
    multiple times.

    > Especially if the
    > request is stupid or comes from Alabama! :)
    >

    Ah, that's it. It takes a while for those slow talkers to say everything
    they want and even longer for God to interpret what they said. It takes a
    few passes to catch everything.

    Glenn D.
  9. Glenn Dowdy

    Glenn Dowdy Guest

    Re: The Ten comandments.

    <bjacoby@users.iwaynet.net> wrote in message
    news:binpa2$d4v$1@tribune.oar.net...
    >
    > Yes, saying that has been a ploy of the atheists, agnostics etc.


    And saying that atheism is a religion has been a ploy of Christians to
    further their agenda. See how easy that is to say, and how weak of an
    argument either statement presents?

    > The Dictionary puts it


    Which dictionary? In any case, a dictionary is not necessarily the best
    support for a semantical postion.

    > this way: "A system of beliefs held to with ardor and faith".


    Like NASCAR and WWF?

    >
    > I don't know about you, but that SURE describes atheists to me.


    And you're certainly welcome to hold and espouse your interpretation.
    Nothing says we have to accept it, nor does it invalidate our positions.
    Besides, the requirement of "a system..." certainly makes it more difficult
    to prove that every atheist holds atheism to be a religion.

    > It's not just a "world view" because it does take postions
    > on supreme being(s), afterlife, etc. What that position is
    > is not important what is import is that the system is
    > held with "ardor an faith". Thus it seems to follow that it's
    > not atheists, agnostics and the like who are without religion,
    > but rather the only folks who truly have "no religion" are
    > the people who could give a rat's ass about the topic!



    >
    > Therefore, it follows quite logically at all the folks
    > screaming "separation of church and state" when ever
    > some object appears in public clearly DO have "ardor and
    > faith" and are thus trying to establish as the "state
    > religion" their religion!
    >

    I see this more of preventing a particular system of believes from gaining
    favor. If the courthouse in Montgomery displayed holy symbols of every
    religion registered as a tax free organization in the state, then I wouldn't
    care as much.
    >
    > Benj
    > (Now where the hell are my meds?)


    Ask your wife. If she's like mine, she put them away where they belong.
    Wherever that is.

    Glenn D.
  10. Glenn Dowdy

    Glenn Dowdy Guest

    Re: The Ten comandments.

    "Sean Conolly" <sjconolly_98@yaaho.com> wrote in message
    news:hyJ3b.376$VC1.212@bignews2.bellsouth.net...
    >
    > However, as the guys who brought us the first true Democracy in well over

    a
    > thousand years and the Bill of Rights, which among other things lets us
    > engage in this debate, I'm pretty sure that overall their views have and
    > will continue to withstand a lot more scrutiny for a lot longer than your
    > views or mine.
    >

    In my case at least, that's a good thing .;)

    Glenn D.
  11. Glenn Dowdy

    Glenn Dowdy Guest

    Re: The Ten comandments.

    <bjacoby@users.iwaynet.net> wrote in message
    news:binqdm$d4v$4@tribune.oar.net...
    > Glenn Dowdy <glenn.dowdy@nospam.com> wrote:
    >
    > > And the Constitution was written and ratified by rich white slave-owning
    > > landowners who didn't allow women or poor folks to vote. Maybe some of

    their
    > > views don't withstand scrutiny.

    >
    > Maybe. But that depends upon what scrutiny finds doesn't it? Does
    > one judge a book or (gid help us) drumming by the lifestyle
    > of the artist? There are SO many great talents out there who are
    > just total busts as human beings it'd really be throwing the
    > baby out with the bathwater to judge a work by the life of the
    > author.


    As a no-talent hack, I don't feel that talent alone is necessarily good
    enough. There are talents out there whose works I can't enjoy because of the
    other baggage. There are talented drummers in this very newsgroup whose
    contribution I will never see because their baggage has exiled them to
    Plonkville.
    >
    > One judges a work by judging the WORK! Personally I find their
    > work very good. I think also it has pretty well stood the test
    > of time. But then the old way of rule by a hereditary king
    > has as well.
    >

    So, you're turning this thread into a modern political debate on the
    electoral system in the US? ;)

    Glenn D.
  12. Glenn Dowdy

    Glenn Dowdy Guest

    Re: The Ten comandments.

    "Da Parrot-chick" <just@sk.me> wrote in message
    news:UlM3b.623$tw6.470@newsread4.news.pas.earthlink.net...
    >
    > I suppose indifference is a position. I don't know of any atheists who go
    > on crusades to get the faithful to ditch their religion and not care about
    > it anymore, though.
    >

    Well, if I could get the converts to give me 10% of their money, I'd sure
    try.

    Glenn D.
  13. Re: The Ten comandments.

    On Fri, 29 Aug 2003 03:49:04 +0000, George Lawrence wrote:

    > I think that the concepts of Karma and Rebirth differentiate Buddhism from
    > Atheism. These are spiritual principles that require faith; belief without
    > proof, and an acknowledgement that their religion knows how the universe
    > works beyond empirical evidence. who are they all chanting to anyway? :)
    >



    Well, that was something I got off of the SGI (lay organization of
    Nichiren Daishonin Buddhism), the atheist part. There is no requirement of
    faith without proof in Buddhism, no decree of "proof denies faith." There
    are just things we don't know about yet...but when we learn them, that
    doesn't mean that the universe will just up and disappear. After all, one
    of the core beliefs of Buddhism is called "actual proof."

    And we are chanting to ourselves, and all those around us, for the
    ultimate goal of world peace, and everyone being happy, and personally
    fulfilled, and all that stuff. :)



    > --
    > George Lawrence
    > George's Drum Shop
    > 1351 S. Cleveland-Massillon Road #21
    > Copley, Ohio 44321
    > http://www.GeorgesDrumShop.com
    > http://www.Drumguru.com
    > 330 670 0800
    > toll free 866 970 0800
    >
    > "If thine enemy wrong thee,
    > buy each of his children a drum."
    > -Chinese proverb
    >
    >
    >
    >
    > "Roger Sherman" <coolgrooves@hotmail.com> wrote in message
    > news:pan.2003.08.28.22.59.06.138307@hotmail.com...
    >> On Thu, 28 Aug 2003 22:28:45 +0000, George Lawrence wrote:
    >>
    >> > The "atheism is a religion" is typical fuundamentalist propaganda.

    > Atheists
    >> > are not very organized. I was an atheist for a while and it was very

    > hard to
    >> > find atheist material or orginizations. A basic requirement of a

    > religion is
    >> > a faith in and dogma about an existing God, afterlife or higher
    >> > spirituality.
    >> >
    >> > Atheism means "lack of belief" in a god. So an atheist is without belief

    > or,
    >> > in other words, without religion.

    >>
    >> Not really true - Buddhism is essentially atheist at it's core, yet it is
    >> definitly a religion...although the lay organization (for Nichiren
    >> Buddhists, at least) is often referred to as the "organization for people
    >> who hate organizations." :)
    >>
    >>
    >>
    >>
    >> > Most atheists would tell you personally
    >> > that they do not have an agenda to further separate church and state.

    > But
    >> > there are some misguided atheists who think it is their purpose in life

    > to
    >> > prove religion wrong. this particular battle is not one between atheists

    > and
    >> > Christians. It is between judges doing their job and one who isn't.
    >> >
    >> > I am now an agnostic. An agnostic is one who is not committed to

    > believing
    >> > in either the existence or the nonexistence of God or a god. My personal
    >> > philosophy is "You don't know, I don't know and neither does anybody

    > else
    >> > and all religions are just guessing".
    >> >
    >> > Another myth is that the ACLU is an atheist organiziation which is a

    > bunch
    >> > of hogwash. Most of those who work for the ACLU are actually Christians.
    >> >
    >> > --
    >> > George Lawrence
    >> > George's Drum Shop
    >> > 1351 S. Cleveland-Massillon Road #21
    >> > Copley, Ohio 44321
    >> > http://www.GeorgesDrumShop.com
    >> > http://www.Drumguru.com
    >> > 330 670 0800
    >> > toll free 866 970 0800
    >> >
    >> > "If thine enemy wrong thee,
    >> > buy each of his children a drum."
    >> > -Chinese proverb
    >> >
    >> >
    >> >
    >> >
    >> > "Glenn Dowdy" <glenn.dowdy@nospam.com> wrote in message
    >> > news:%Rt3b.3610$EF6.686@news.cpqcorp.net...
    >> >>
    >> >> <bjacoby@users.iwaynet.net> wrote in message
    >> >> news:bilb1s$l7p$1@tribune.oar.net...
    >> >>
    >> >> >
    >> >> > The point you are missing is that Atheism, Secular Humanism etc.
    >> >> > are ALSO religions! They deal with viewpoints of higher powers.
    >> >>
    >> >> I'd like to see some objective opinions on this statement. I know that

    > I
    >> >> don't agree with it, but that in itself isn't enough for me to dismiss

    > it.
    >> > I
    >> >> don't know (of) any atheists who consider their lack of belief a

    > religion.
    >> >>
    >> >> > Therefore when the state adopts the symbols of those religions
    >> >> > and establishes them by LAW they are establishing a STATE religion.
    >> >>
    >> >> What symbols? I would think that there are many "real" religions that
    >> > would
    >> >> object to having the Judeo-Christian symbolism displayed in a court of

    > law
    >> >> in the same way that J-Cs might object to a big statue of Ganesh

    > sitting
    >> > in
    >> >> the same halls.
    >> >>
    >> >> > The fact that the symbols of these religions is the ABSENCE of
    >> >> > religious symbols doesn't change the argument.
    >> >>
    >> >> So everywhere that there are no symbols of religion means that there is

    > a
    >> > de
    >> >> facto display of atheism? I guess from a square footage basis we're
    >> > winning
    >> >> then, and I guess we get to count all that wilderness that the Lord
    >> > created.
    >> >> Since He didn't see it necessary to include His Brand, He must be

    > ceding
    >> > the
    >> >> point.
    >> >> >
    >> >> > We went through all this here when the Klan decided to put up a
    >> >> > "Christmas" cross on the statehouse lawn. (No, they didn't burn
    >> >> > it. :)
    >> >>
    >> >> The Klukkers don't burn crosses; they 'light' them. Burning doesn't

    > seem
    >> >> very Christian, does it? But lighting, well, that's different.
    >> >>
    >> >> > Everyone argued like you. That there should be no "religious"
    >> >> > displays allowed at all. But happily this court discision followed

    > the
    >> >> > law and determined that the state could NOT interfere with anyone's
    >> >> > religious displays no matter who they were. So now the Klan cross
    >> >> > goes up. Some Jewish group always puts up a menorah some other groups
    >> >> > put up some of their symbols too.
    >> >>
    >> >> I've never seen a poster of Ganesh, and he's my favorite Hindu deity.
    >> >> Something about the ears...
    >> >>
    >> >> > The Atheists find the whole thing
    >> >> > TOTALLY offensive and are still demanding that their symbols (none)
    >> >> > be made official by the state, but the issue has been pretty much
    >> >> > settled. The state stays ABOVE the fray!
    >> >> >
    >> >> FYI, at the last world-wide atheists convention, we voted to change our
    >> >> symbol from nothing to " ". We call it The Symbol Formerly Known As
    >> >> Nothing. tm.
    >> >>
    >> >> Look, when you can understand why you don't believe in all the other

    > gods
    >> >> like Ganesh, Kane, and Zeus, you'll understand why I don't believe in
    >> > yours.
    >> >> I'm just a better atheist than you are.
    >> >>
    >> >> And another thing: God hears prayer, right? He knows all, so He can

    > make a
    >> >> pretty informed decision, and He doesn't forget what He's been asked to
    >> > do.
    >> >> So if all those fellow Montgomerians pray once to keep the tablet in
    >> > place,
    >> >> then either God says okay, or He says no. To keep praying seems to send
    >> > the
    >> >> message that God should change His mind (in effect, He was wrong) or

    > that
    >> >> perhaps He needs reminding. I don't get repeat prayer at all, even if I
    >> >> believed in the efficacy of the same.
    >> >>
    >> >> Glenn D.
    >> >>
    >> >>

    >>
    >> --
    >>
    >> peace,
    >>
    >> Rog
    >>
    >> http://www.slammingrooves.com
    >>
    >>
    >>
    >> Top 11 administration reactions to the Great Bush Blackout of '03:
    >>
    >> 11. "Get me out of harm's way!"
    >>
    >> 10. "Upgrading the infrastructure? Sounds like a job for Halliburton!"
    >>
    >> 9. "We've got to do something ... Oh, wait. They're all blue states."
    >>
    >> 8. "If only we had more people with energy experience in this

    > administration."
    >>
    >> 7. "So much for your appearance on The Daily Show, Ms. Clinton!

    > MUHWWAHAHAHAHA!"
    >>
    >> 6. "The energy industry needs a tax cut!"
    >>
    >> 5. "Endangered arctic wildlife, allow me to introduce Mr. Backhoe."
    >>
    >> 4. "Whatever, I'm going jogging."
    >>
    >> 3. "I'm telling you, we can sell it, 'Bill Clinton's penis took out a
    >> transformer.'"
    >>
    >> 2. "Should we cancel the fundraiser? HAHAHAHAHHAHA!"
    >>
    >> And the number one administration reaction to the Great Bush Blackout of

    > '03...
    >>
    >> 1. "Hello, you've reached the office of de facto president Dick Cheney.

    > I'm on a
    >> vacation, but if you leave your name and number, I'll get back to you next
    >> month."
    >>
    >>


    --

    peace,

    Rog

    http://www.slammingrooves.com



    Top 11 administration reactions to the Great Bush Blackout of '03:

    11. "Get me out of harm's way!"

    10. "Upgrading the infrastructure? Sounds like a job for Halliburton!"

    9. "We've got to do something ... Oh, wait. They're all blue states."

    8. "If only we had more people with energy experience in this administration."

    7. "So much for your appearance on The Daily Show, Ms. Clinton! MUHWWAHAHAHAHA!"

    6. "The energy industry needs a tax cut!"

    5. "Endangered arctic wildlife, allow me to introduce Mr. Backhoe."

    4. "Whatever, I'm going jogging."

    3. "I'm telling you, we can sell it, 'Bill Clinton's penis took out a
    transformer.'"

    2. "Should we cancel the fundraiser? HAHAHAHAHHAHA!"

    And the number one administration reaction to the Great Bush Blackout of '03...

    1. "Hello, you've reached the office of de facto president Dick Cheney. I'm on a
    vacation, but if you leave your name and number, I'll get back to you next
    month."
  14. Re: The Ten comandments.

    On Thu, 28 Aug 2003 23:16:20 +0000, BKO wrote:

    >
    > "Roger Sherman" <coolgrooves@hotmail.com> wrote in message
    > news:pan.2003.08.28.22.59.06.138307@hotmail.com...
    >
    >> > Atheism means "lack of belief" in a god. So an atheist is without belief

    > or,
    >> > in other words, without religion.

    >>
    >> Not really true - Buddhism is essentially atheist at it's core, yet it is
    >> definitly a religion...although the lay organization (for Nichiren
    >> Buddhists, at least) is often referred to as the "organization for people
    >> who hate organizations." :)

    >
    > I don't pretend to know much about Buddhism, but I 'think' its contemporary
    > practices differ from the teachings of Buddha himself (whatever his name
    > was). IIFC he taught that there were no 'gods', but contemporary believers
    > substitute idols in their place.



    I don't profess to know all sects of Buddhism, but I believe Nichiren
    Buddhism is the most widely practiced, and we certainly do not substitute
    idols for gods. We have a Gohonzon, which we sit in front of when we
    chant, but it isn't an "idol" that we pray to. It's symbolizes our own
    life/lives, and is probably not very different from a Catholic praying in
    front of a crucifix. We don't need to be in front of it to chant, of
    course.



    > In any event, even if your contention
    > holds, you haven't shown that all atheists are religious.


    Can you point out to me where I said that all atheists are religious?




    >
    > BKO


    --

    peace,

    Rog

    http://www.slammingrooves.com



    Top 11 administration reactions to the Great Bush Blackout of '03:

    11. "Get me out of harm's way!"

    10. "Upgrading the infrastructure? Sounds like a job for Halliburton!"

    9. "We've got to do something ... Oh, wait. They're all blue states."

    8. "If only we had more people with energy experience in this administration."

    7. "So much for your appearance on The Daily Show, Ms. Clinton! MUHWWAHAHAHAHA!"

    6. "The energy industry needs a tax cut!"

    5. "Endangered arctic wildlife, allow me to introduce Mr. Backhoe."

    4. "Whatever, I'm going jogging."

    3. "I'm telling you, we can sell it, 'Bill Clinton's penis took out a
    transformer.'"

    2. "Should we cancel the fundraiser? HAHAHAHAHHAHA!"

    And the number one administration reaction to the Great Bush Blackout of '03...

    1. "Hello, you've reached the office of de facto president Dick Cheney. I'm on a
    vacation, but if you leave your name and number, I'll get back to you next
    month."
  15. Mark Rance

    Mark Rance Guest

    Re: The Ten comandments.

    "Glenn Dowdy" <glenn.dowdy@nospam.com> wrote in message
    news:7bL3b.3707$2l7.728@news.cpqcorp.net...
    >
    > "Mark Rance" <mrr@pcisys.network> wrote in message
    > news:vktslb4i79mnc4@corp.supernews.com...
    > >
    > > "Glenn Dowdy" <glenn.dowdy@nospam.com> wrote in message
    > > news:T0u3b.3617$vH6.2400@news.cpqcorp.net...
    > > >
    > > > <bjacoby@users.iwaynet.net> wrote in message
    > > > news:bilboa$l7p$2@tribune.oar.net...
    > > > >
    > > > > Of course times change
    > > > > slowly and I can imagine some courts in the boonies where the
    > > > > bible thing is still enforced.
    > > > >
    > > > Like in my hometown of Montgomery. ;)

    > >
    > > and Denver
    > >

    > Denver's worse than the Springs? The mind boggles.



    Not "worse than", but rather, "as good as."

    -Mark
  16. Glenn Dowdy

    Glenn Dowdy Guest

    Re: The Ten comandments.

    "Mark Rance" <mrr@pcisys.network> wrote in message
    news:vkvdd1g65ntqf8@corp.supernews.com...
    >
    >
    > Not "worse than", but rather, "as good as."
    >

    Heh.

    Glenn D.
  17. BKO

    BKO Guest

    Re: The Ten comandments.

    "Roger Sherman" <coolgrooves@hotmail.com> wrote in message
    news:pan.2003.08.29.19.17.14.959659@hotmail.com...

    > Can you point out to me where I said that all atheists are religious?


    Roger,

    As I understand it this thread deals with the proposition that either
    atheism is a form of religion or it is not. You've argued that your version
    of atheism is religious. I took you to be arguing in the affirmative. By
    your last statement I can only assume you were pointing to the complexity of
    the issue. If so, then I agree with you and I can think of other non-deist
    organizations that are religious in nature too; e.g., Scientology IIRC, but
    the problem is that many atheists do not claim to be members of religious
    communities. In fact they claim just the opposite. And, when they work to
    keep society free of undue religious influence, they do not appreciate being
    told they are acting in contradiction to their own values. I take them at
    their word.

    BKO
  18. Joey Furr

    Joey Furr Guest

    Re: The Ten comandments.

    Classic! Somehow, someway,...it's gotta be Bush's fault.

    LOL.

    ....Joey

    "Roger Sherman" <coolgrooves@hotmail.com> wrote in message
    news:pan.2003.08.29.19.17.14.959659@hotmail.com...
    > On Thu, 28 Aug 2003 23:16:20 +0000, BKO wrote:
    >
    > >
    > > "Roger Sherman" <coolgrooves@hotmail.com> wrote in message
    > > news:pan.2003.08.28.22.59.06.138307@hotmail.com...
    > >
    > >> > Atheism means "lack of belief" in a god. So an atheist is without

    belief
    > > or,
    > >> > in other words, without religion.
    > >>
    > >> Not really true - Buddhism is essentially atheist at it's core, yet it

    is
    > >> definitly a religion...although the lay organization (for Nichiren
    > >> Buddhists, at least) is often referred to as the "organization for

    people
    > >> who hate organizations." :)

    > >
    > > I don't pretend to know much about Buddhism, but I 'think' its

    contemporary
    > > practices differ from the teachings of Buddha himself (whatever his name
    > > was). IIFC he taught that there were no 'gods', but contemporary

    believers
    > > substitute idols in their place.

    >
    >
    > I don't profess to know all sects of Buddhism, but I believe Nichiren
    > Buddhism is the most widely practiced, and we certainly do not substitute
    > idols for gods. We have a Gohonzon, which we sit in front of when we
    > chant, but it isn't an "idol" that we pray to. It's symbolizes our own
    > life/lives, and is probably not very different from a Catholic praying in
    > front of a crucifix. We don't need to be in front of it to chant, of
    > course.
    >
    >
    >
    > > In any event, even if your contention
    > > holds, you haven't shown that all atheists are religious.

    >
    > Can you point out to me where I said that all atheists are religious?
    >
    >
    >
    >
    > >
    > > BKO

    >
    > --
    >
    > peace,
    >
    > Rog
    >
    > http://www.slammingrooves.com
    >
    >
    >
    > Top 11 administration reactions to the Great Bush Blackout of '03:
    >
    > 11. "Get me out of harm's way!"
    >
    > 10. "Upgrading the infrastructure? Sounds like a job for Halliburton!"
    >
    > 9. "We've got to do something ... Oh, wait. They're all blue states."
    >
    > 8. "If only we had more people with energy experience in this

    administration."
    >
    > 7. "So much for your appearance on The Daily Show, Ms. Clinton!

    MUHWWAHAHAHAHA!"
    >
    > 6. "The energy industry needs a tax cut!"
    >
    > 5. "Endangered arctic wildlife, allow me to introduce Mr. Backhoe."
    >
    > 4. "Whatever, I'm going jogging."
    >
    > 3. "I'm telling you, we can sell it, 'Bill Clinton's penis took out a
    > transformer.'"
    >
    > 2. "Should we cancel the fundraiser? HAHAHAHAHHAHA!"
    >
    > And the number one administration reaction to the Great Bush Blackout of

    '03...
    >
    > 1. "Hello, you've reached the office of de facto president Dick Cheney.

    I'm on a
    > vacation, but if you leave your name and number, I'll get back to you next
    > month."
    >
    >
  19. Joey Furr

    Joey Furr Guest

    Re: The Ten comandments.

    "Da Parrot-chick" <just@sk.me> wrote in message
    news:UlM3b.623$tw6.470@newsread4.news.pas.earthlink.net...
    >
    > <bjacoby@users.iwaynet.net> wrote in message
    > news:binpa2$d4v$1@tribune.oar.net...
    > > George Lawrence <drumguru@ameritech.net> wrote:
    > > > I will accept that atheism and agnosticism are world views, but not
    > > > "religions". Religion can safely be defined in the broadest sense as

    > man's
    > > > expression of his acknowledgement of the divine. Because neither

    atheism
    > and
    > > > agnosticism acknowledge the divine, they are not religions. They are

    the
    > > > lack of religion.

    > >
    > > Yes, saying that has been a ploy of the atheists, agnostics etc.
    > > for some time, and worded as you word it makes sense. But I say
    > > religion is not solely defined as an "expression of his acknowledgement
    > > of the divine". Yes, Religion as found in organized churches definitely
    > > is "religion". But that isn't quite enough. The Dictionary puts it
    > > this way: "A system of beliefs held to with ardor and faith".

    >
    > Right. Atheists and agnostics want proof. You can't have faith and

    demand
    > proof at the same time.


    Incorrect. Although I know I shouldnt have needed proof as a Christian...as
    a scientifically minded man I did demand proof...and got it.
    You just have to be willing to look.

    If you sincerely look...you WILL find proof.

    ....Joey

    Faith is the most necessary part of religion, no?
    > Even God says so--it's the first commandment. Believe in Me and Me only.
    >
    > > I don't know about you, but that SURE describes atheists to me.
    > > It's not just a "world view" because it does take postions
    > > on supreme being(s), afterlife, etc.

    >
    > I suppose indifference is a position. I don't know of any atheists who go
    > on crusades to get the faithful to ditch their religion and not care about
    > it anymore, though.
    >
    > What that position is
    > > is not important what is import is that the system is
    > > held with "ardor an faith". Thus it seems to follow that it's
    > > not atheists, agnostics and the like who are without religion,
    > > but rather the only folks who truly have "no religion" are
    > > the people who could give a rat's ass about the topic!

    >
    > Only problem with that is, the fundamentalists enter at that point and try
    > to change the laws to favor their religion over others. That's when the

    law
    > steps in.
    >
    > > Therefore, it follows quite logically at all the folks
    > > screaming "separation of church and state" when ever
    > > some object appears in public clearly DO have "ardor and
    > > faith" and are thus trying to establish as the "state
    > > religion" their religion!
    > >
    > > Q.E.D.

    >
    > Wow, man.
    >
    > > Benj
    > > (Now where the hell are my meds?)

    >
    > I didn't touch 'em--we're on different prescriptions :)
    >
    >
  20. Joey Furr

    Joey Furr Guest

    Re: The Ten comandments.

    Yeah, it was! :)
    I'm just dismayed that it was started by Tom. :-/

    --

    ....Joey
    "...so hold the mustard on those flames, y'all." - Aaron Draper


    "Glenn Dowdy" <glenn.dowdy@nospam.com> wrote in message
    news:f6L3b.3705$Hp7.2575@news.cpqcorp.net...
    >
    > "Joey Furr" <joeyfurr@yahoo.com> wrote in message
    > news:ptucndSErMeeBdOiXTWJkw@comcast.com...
    > > Glenn-D,
    > > We could probably quote things at each other and make this another
    > > incredibly long thread...

    >
    > It'll be a long thread even without our point-counterpoint efforts. ;)

    What
    > we have shown is that those guys have shown tendencies to espouse either
    > side at times, so we really can't tell what they truly believed.
    >
    > >
    > > ...but I think we'll just have to agree to disagree and get back to
    > > drummin'!!
    > >

    > I'm still in the Bay Area, so I won't get back to drumming until this
    > weekend. Speaking of long threads, this one post was pretty damn long by
    > itself.
    >
    > Glenn D.
    >
    >

Share This Page