Portable high sample rate hard disc recorder?

Discussion in 'rec.audio.pro' started by James Perrett, Aug 14, 2003.

  1. Does anyone make a portable hard disc digital audio recorder that
    samples at higher than 48kHz?

    I've tried looking at various web sites like Canford and HHB for such a
    machine but with no luck. I'm thinking of something like the Marantz
    PMD680, Maycom Easycorder or Sonifex Courier but with a higher maximum
    sampling rate. Size is important as this has to fit into a cylindrical
    space approximately 10" diameter by 6" deep so this rules out the new
    HHB recorder.

    I've toyed with the idea of putting together something myself based on a
    PC104 embedded PC but time is very tight and I'm not sure that I could
    get anything working reliably enough in a short time.

    While this isn't for a broadcast application, I figure that broadcast or
    film recordists would be the target market if such a device existed, so
    I hope this group is an appropriate place to ask.

    Cheers.

    James.
  2. James Perrett wrote:

    > Does anyone make a portable hard disc digital audio recorder that
    > samples at higher than 48kHz?
    >
    > I've tried looking at various web sites like Canford and HHB for such a
    > machine but with no luck. I'm thinking of something like the Marantz
    > PMD680, Maycom Easycorder or Sonifex Courier but with a higher maximum
    > sampling rate. Size is important as this has to fit into a cylindrical
    > space approximately 10" diameter by 6" deep so this rules out the new
    > HHB recorder.


    Later this year http://www.sounddevices.com/products/7.htm should fit
    the bill, at least for 88.2/96 kHz recording (no 192k.)
  3. Arny Krueger

    Arny Krueger Guest

    "James Perrett" <jrp@soc.soton.ac.uk> wrote in message
    news:3F3BB069.8D091D69@soc.soton.ac.uk
    > Does anyone make a portable hard disc digital audio recorder that
    > samples at higher than 48kHz?


    > I've tried looking at various web sites like Canford and HHB for such
    > a machine but with no luck. I'm thinking of something like the Marantz
    > PMD680, Maycom Easycorder or Sonifex Courier but with a higher maximum
    > sampling rate. Size is important as this has to fit into a cylindrical
    > space approximately 10" diameter by 6" deep so this rules out the new
    > HHB recorder.


    > I've toyed with the idea of putting together something myself based
    > on a PC104 embedded PC but time is very tight and I'm not sure that I
    > could get anything working reliably enough in a short time.


    > While this isn't for a broadcast application, I figure that broadcast
    > or film recordists would be the target market if such a device
    > existed, so I hope this group is an appropriate place to ask.


    44/16 is overkill for both film and broadcast. If you haven't noticed, high
    quality in these contexts means 44/16 or 48/16, and standard quality is MD.
    MD nets out to be no more than 14/32.
  4. Ron Charles

    Ron Charles Guest

    I totally disagree.
    When we work on location, we use 44.1 to 48+k rates as standard, and 96k
    will be the next jump this year!
    Nobody uses MD for film location recording in a professional setting
    anymore! Too much compression

    Look into the new 96K devices such as ...
    Sound Devices 744
    HHB PORTADRIVE

    RON CHARLES
    Location Sound Reordist
    "Arny Krueger" <arnyk@hotpop.com> wrote in message
    news:tmGdnQbr24rRWKaiXTWJiw@comcast.com...
    > "James Perrett" <jrp@soc.soton.ac.uk> wrote in message
    > news:3F3BB069.8D091D69@soc.soton.ac.uk
    > > Does anyone make a portable hard disc digital audio recorder that
    > > samples at higher than 48kHz?

    >
    > > I've tried looking at various web sites like Canford and HHB for such
    > > a machine but with no luck. I'm thinking of something like the Marantz
    > > PMD680, Maycom Easycorder or Sonifex Courier but with a higher maximum
    > > sampling rate. Size is important as this has to fit into a cylindrical
    > > space approximately 10" diameter by 6" deep so this rules out the new
    > > HHB recorder.

    >
    > > I've toyed with the idea of putting together something myself based
    > > on a PC104 embedded PC but time is very tight and I'm not sure that I
    > > could get anything working reliably enough in a short time.

    >
    > > While this isn't for a broadcast application, I figure that broadcast
    > > or film recordists would be the target market if such a device
    > > existed, so I hope this group is an appropriate place to ask.

    >
    > 44/16 is overkill for both film and broadcast. If you haven't noticed,

    high
    > quality in these contexts means 44/16 or 48/16, and standard quality is

    MD.
    > MD nets out to be no more than 14/32.
    >
    >
  5. transducr

    transducr Guest

    James Perrett <jrp@soc.soton.ac.uk> wrote in message news:<3F3BB069.8D091D69@soc.soton.ac.uk>...
    > Does anyone make a portable hard disc digital audio recorder that
    > samples at higher than 48kHz?
    >
    > I've tried looking at various web sites like Canford and HHB for such a
    > machine but with no luck. I'm thinking of something like the Marantz
    > PMD680, Maycom Easycorder or Sonifex Courier but with a higher maximum
    > sampling rate. Size is important as this has to fit into a cylindrical
    > space approximately 10" diameter by 6" deep so this rules out the new
    > HHB recorder.
    >
    > I've toyed with the idea of putting together something myself based on a
    > PC104 embedded PC but time is very tight and I'm not sure that I could
    > get anything working reliably enough in a short time.
    >
    > While this isn't for a broadcast application, I figure that broadcast or
    > film recordists would be the target market if such a device existed, so
    > I hope this group is an appropriate place to ask.
    >
    > Cheers.
    >
    > James.


    the new ipods are rumored to start making full use of their (for now
    obscured in diagnostic testing modes only) ability to record audio
    sometime before year end.

    i would assume accessories will be made that attach to their docking
    port to make this feature more flexible. for many hobbyist location
    recorders (concerts, nature field recordings, etc.) this will be an
    incredible developement. not to mention uses in sampling and
    broadcast, should the quality be good enough (and i have no reason to
    believe that it won't be).

    it sounds like your in a time crunch and this probably won't help, but
    i thought i'd throw it out there anyway as a related point of
    interest.
  6. Marc Wielage

    Marc Wielage Guest

    On Thu, 14 Aug 2003 10:22:14 -0700, Arny Krueger wrote
    (in message <tmGdnQbr24rRWKaiXTWJiw@comcast.com>):

    > 44/16 is overkill for both film and broadcast. If you haven't noticed, high
    > quality in these contexts means 44/16 or 48/16, and standard quality is MD.
    >-----------------------------<snip>----------------------------<


    Not true. I just worked on two recent film projects (OPEN RANGE for Disney
    and SWAT for Sony/Columbia), and both were 48K/24-bit all the way. They
    sounded great, too.

    Many major pictures I know of nowadays are being done with 24-bit gear. Even
    TV projects, like "61" (done for HBO a few years ago) was shot that way, with
    a Deva recorder on location. And nobody's using MD for film except possibly
    for music playback on the set.

    --MFW
  7. David Morton

    David Morton Guest

    In article <ac00ffb8.0308141439.618fc676@posting.google.com>,
    transducr@autonomous-robot.com (transducr) wrote:

    > the new ipods are rumored to start making full use of their (for now
    > obscured in diagnostic testing modes only) ability to record audio
    > sometime before year end.
    >
    > i would assume accessories will be made that attach to their docking
    > port to make this feature more flexible. for many hobbyist location
    > recorders (concerts, nature field recordings, etc.) this will be an
    > incredible developement. not to mention uses in sampling and
    > broadcast, should the quality be good enough (and i have no reason to
    > believe that it won't be).


    *If* it happens, and as you say it's just a rumour at the moment, then
    it'll be interesting, but I think "incredible development" is OTT.

    The Creative Nomad/DAP boxes already offer this facility - albeit only at
    44.1 and 48kHz - so Apple would be playing catch up (admittedly with a
    smaller & better looking box).

    Also the original poster wanted sampling rates higher than 48kHz, and I've
    not seen anything to suggest that even the latest iPods can do this, have
    I missed something?

    I've wound up with both...a Creative DAP for location recording and an
    (original 5GB) iPod for music on the move.
  8. transducr wrote:

    >
    > the new ipods are rumored to start making full use of their (for now
    > obscured in diagnostic testing modes only) ability to record audio
    > sometime before year end.
    >
    > i would assume accessories will be made that attach to their docking
    > port to make this feature more flexible. for many hobbyist location
    > recorders (concerts, nature field recordings, etc.) this will be an
    > incredible developement. not to mention uses in sampling and
    > broadcast, should the quality be good enough (and i have no reason to
    > believe that it won't be).
    >
    > it sounds like your in a time crunch and this probably won't help, but
    > i thought i'd throw it out there anyway as a related point of
    > interest.


    Thanks for all the suggestions - size, power consumption and immediate
    availablity are crucial in this case. It seems that the film market has
    possibilities but all the devices I've seen (HHB, Aaton and probably
    Sound Devices) are too big. I've also heard rumours of a device under
    developmente by Core Sound, presumably for the gig taping community, but
    I don't think we can wait for that.

    Keep the suggestions coming though.

    Cheers.

    James.
  9. James Perrett wrote:
    >
    > Thanks for all the suggestions - size, power consumption and immediate
    > availablity are crucial in this case. It seems that the film market has
    > possibilities but all the devices I've seen (HHB, Aaton and probably
    > Sound Devices) are too big.


    The SD boxes are quite small in comparison to the others mentioned--not
    much bigger than a USBpre and about 1.3rd the volume of a Deva. Power
    consumption will probably be quite low, knowing how Matt and Jon (and
    their customers) value that.




    > I've also heard rumours of a device under
    > developmente by Core Sound, presumably for the gig taping community, but
    > I don't think we can wait for that.


    http://www.core-sound.com/HighResRecorderNews.html
  10. Sugarite

    Sugarite Guest

    > Does anyone make a portable hard disc digital audio recorder that
    > samples at higher than 48kHz?


    I use the Nomad Jukebox 3 often, and while it is limited to 48kHz, I have
    succeeded in getting 96kHz to work, though it wasn't stable enough to use
    professionally. I suspect 24/96 support is just a matter of a firmware
    update, which might eventually come into being, but not anytime soon.

    From my research the NJB3 is the best option for portable stereo recording.
    With 2 batteries I get 6 hours of recording time, 33 hours of drive capacity
    at 16/44.1, 2 hours of footage transfers over Firewire in 5 minutes, and
    it's been handy as an external drive for exchanging data between studio &
    home. Contrary to popular misconception, it has proven very stable for me,
    not a single glitch in about 100 hours of footage, and even the analog input
    renders decent results. $299 extremely well spent.
  11. Arny Krueger

    Arny Krueger Guest

    "Ron Charles" <portugal@3web.net> wrote in message
    news:3f3bf962_2@news.cybersurf.net

    > I totally disagree.


    OK, but if you want to keep this interesting, you're going to have to do
    more than just assert that you are right.

    > When we work on location, we use 44.1 to 48+k rates as standard, and
    > 96k will be the next jump this year!


    And this proves exactly what?

    > Nobody uses MD for film location recording in a professional setting
    > anymore! Too much compression


    No argument there.

    > Look into the new 96K devices such as ...
    > Sound Devices 744
    > HHB PORTADRIVE


    I've had some of the finest-sounding 24/192 converters around for more than
    a year. I've been using 24/96 converters for almost 3 years. Based on
    carefully-controlled listening tests, I currently do all my recording at
    24/44.

    Listen for yourself at http://www.pcabx.com/technical/sample_rates/index.htm
  12. Mike Rivers

    Mike Rivers Guest

    In article <9sa%a.2787$q9.161788@read1.cgocable.net> nobody@home.com writes:

    > I use the Nomad Jukebox 3 often, and while it is limited to 48kHz, I have
    > succeeded in getting 96kHz to work, though it wasn't stable enough to use
    > professionally.


    How do you do that?


    --
    I'm really Mike Rivers - (mrivers@d-and-d.com)
  13. Mike Rivers <mrivers@d-and-d.com> wrote:

    > In article <9sa%a.2787$q9.161788@read1.cgocable.net> nobody@home.com writes:


    > > I use the Nomad Jukebox 3 often, and while it is limited to 48kHz, I have
    > > succeeded in getting 96kHz to work, though it wasn't stable enough to use
    > > professionally.


    > How do you do that?


    If you're looking for trouble, trouble's looking for you.

    --
    ha
  14. Dave Gibson

    Dave Gibson Guest

    "James Perrett" <jrp@soc.soton.ac.uk> wrote in message
    news:3F3BB069.8D091D69@soc.soton.ac.uk...
    > Does anyone make a portable hard disc digital audio recorder that
    > samples at higher than 48kHz?
    >
    > I've tried looking at various web sites like Canford and HHB for such a
    > machine but with no luck. I'm thinking of something like the Marantz
    > PMD680, Maycom Easycorder or Sonifex Courier but with a higher maximum
    > sampling rate. Size is important as this has to fit into a cylindrical
    > space approximately 10" diameter by 6" deep so this rules out the new
    > HHB recorder.
    >
    > I've toyed with the idea of putting together something myself based on a
    > PC104 embedded PC but time is very tight and I'm not sure that I could
    > get anything working reliably enough in a short time.
    >
    > While this isn't for a broadcast application, I figure that broadcast or
    > film recordists would be the target market if such a device existed, so
    > I hope this group is an appropriate place to ask.
    >
    > Cheers.
    >
    > James.


    If its just high sample rate you are after, stick something like Sound Forge
    on a laptop. Can't vouch for the quality of the laptop audio front end, but
    at least you can sample up to 192kHz and 32 bit depth (PMSL).

    I know that 24 bit sampling is the current trend, but really this is
    overkill as it gives 144dB dynamic range. I've yet to encounter a preamp/mic
    combo that even gets near this s/n ratio.

    Its only because it is easier to handle 3 bytes that 24 bit has become in
    vogue.

    20 bits is the absolute practical limit, giving you 120 dB range.

    Dave
  15. Chris Isbell

    Chris Isbell Guest

    On Sat, 16 Aug 2003 09:51:35 +0100, "Dave Gibson" <daceg@nospam.net>
    wrote:

    >I know that 24 bit sampling is the current trend, but really this is
    >overkill as it gives 144dB dynamic range. I've yet to encounter a preamp/mic
    >combo that even gets near this s/n ratio.


    Even the Nyquist noise of cable at typical audio signal levels is not
    much below this. Maybe nature is trying to tell us something.... ;-)


    --
    Chris Isbell
    Southampton
    UK
  16. James Perrett <jrp@soc.soton.ac.uk> wrote:

    >Does anyone make a portable hard disc digital audio recorder that
    >samples at higher than 48kHz?


    You might be interested in our PDAudio system:

    http://www.core-sound.com/HighResRecorderNews.html

    We're shipping PDAudio-CF and we expect Mic2496 will ship late next
    week.


    --
    Len Moskowitz PDAudio, Binaural Mics, Cables, DPA, M-Audio
    Core Sound http://www.stealthmicrophones.com
    Teaneck, New Jersey USA http://www.core-sound.com
    moskowit@core-sound.com Tel: 201-801-0812, FAX: 201-801-0912

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