Discussion in 'Sequencing Hardware' started by bigbaddonwong, Sep 6, 2002.
I agree give em a slap jr:slap:
Miming, I wouldn't have believed it until recently.
Walked into a pub with a duo playing some good sounds. Guitar and bass with sequenced drums. I was a bit suspicious as the bass player's fretting wasn't quite with the bass line but what nailed it was the perfect Fretless Bass line when the guy didn't have a fretless bass, or effects pedal, or Roland V-bass.
Reasonable singer though. Also did this turning up during the patter routine to throw people off the scent of deception.
If it's good entertainment, I suppose it's OK but I'd rather see an honest setup, warts'n'all.
Just like everyone else, I came from bands and ended up in duos. Venues can't pay the money for large bands in my area. That's what they say, but as I have worked hard with my partner to make a great live sounding duo, we are making almost the same kind of money most great 4 piece bands are getting.
I put in a light show into all our midi tracks (Using Channel 9), and alter the reverb settings using midi for the different styles we perform. As with most people in single and duo acts, you must learn to connect with your audience much better and therefore become a better entertainer (not necessarily a better musician).
Would I like to be in a 10 piece band again? You bet. It's a lot of fun, and you have so much more flexibility and fun on stage. But I don't think I would bring home the same pay. It's too bad because the music industry is going to s**t because of it.
i'm glad i'm not the only one who thinks like this ,I thought i was just getting old!
Just a quick point about pretending to play. Occasionally we do a new song and if the solo is not qutie nailed we just let the keyboard play it. Yeah it's not the same but at the end of the day I thnik you're better looking like a twat when the keyboard plays the solo rather than looking like a twat when you f**k the whole thing up.
Also there are some very intricate piano parts in some of the songs we do eg. Olivers Army. I can't play them but I do play a keyboard rhythm behind them, usually a honky tonk piano or muted guitar on the keyboard and let the keyboard do the main stuff.
I do openly admit to people that I'm not playing the parts and I think people respect that. One smart ass said to me once at the end of the night that I must have been miming the piano part in Robbie Williams Angels 'cos the timing was perfect so I took him up to the keyboard, switched it on and played the intro chords, which are piss easy so it shows how much he knows!! When I stopped I said, "Do you want me to play it again?"
merry xmas and well done we should start a thread of smart mouths and put downs maybe we could use them at a gig
different than the heavy end of a microphone stand
put some of these guys on stage with a proper band (they'd be lynched) i am a solo artist - but i plug the guitar in lol
hey if i could afford to play with a band i could but i make much more money as a solo act. im just a singer with backing tracks but ive worked with several band and am a qualified sound engineer. nothing wrong with backing tracks.
some of these musicians wouldnt get work without singers. So most of them shouldnt knock backing trax. It sounds to me like jealousy on their behalf. Jealousy because singers using backing trax can make 5 times the amount of money a musician might make. But having said that I wouldnt dream of knocking a guitarist or a keyboard player being carried by the rest of the band.
voice is an instrument as I said earlier ,its the kidders that get to me!
Some are even using karaoke disks with the lead vocal coming through!
I just spent the last 16 years in full bands (rock bands and Casino lounge acts and the trio that we just put together is definitley alot less hassles and better money
Interesting stuff you are talking here. My father is a musician, he played violin since he 7 years old. He used to play in duo with another guy on the keyboard (piano)... They broke up last year and my father wasn't playing at all.
I wasn't doing anything at the time.. so i thought why wouldn't I get into music ..for the fun of it and for the money of course. I never played piano or keyboard and had no idea about music.
I learned a few chords ..and when we start a gig .. I just play left hand with the styles that come from the keyboard, and my fathers does his thing with the violin. It wasn't hard to learn so I had it going in a couple of weeks.
After he finishes the instrumental bit, during which the turists can have their meals and chat, without us making to much noise we have a brake.
Later on I start playing vocals ..and I use the midi with backing tracks on the keyboard.. and evryone usually has a great time...
By the way I'm not in London, but on a mediteranean island, but play at hotels and restaurants for english tourists (mainly old guys).
It is quite odd to talk about live music on site about midi's ... Since you are on this forum you have something to do win "non-live" music.
Now ..should we get someone on the keyboard to mime so I would do the singing? Who would pay the extra guy? ..
What do you exactly mean by playing live on the keyboard? ..Using styles ..and doing some solos with the right hand ..or playing just piano both hands?
Why play it live when you can use the disks? For some songs you must have a larger band ..to play them live .. you can play them on the keyboard but they would never sound the way they should.
Another question ..let's say you play some rock'n roll, left hand chords -styles ..right hand solos.... There are few rock'n rool styles on the keyboard ..so you'll keep playing a couple of songs with the same style..-making all sound the same? ..or use different styles (again on disks) for the other songs?
Anyway... I am pretty sure my father plays live music .. but when it comes to keyboard how do you define live music?
In the past when keyboards were not so advanced (no sequencers attached) .. I knew this guy who was playing evrything life ... he sure had to press a lot of buttons all the time change tone for this part ..changing back ..style etc.
I saw him recently playing at a pub .. with midi disks. He can do it life .. but why the fuss? He sequences his own midi files and plays just vocals ..of course he can also play live at any time if he wants to.... So if a real musician that played live all his life comes to the point when he uses disks .. why shouldn't I? ...
I am making a fraud? ..probably ... At least I play live vocals .. I've heard of others that fake even the voice using pre-recorded .. mini-discs ... That way you don't have to worry about the flu all the time!
So how many of you play live and what do you exactly understand by "live" these days ...that is regarding keyboards ...
interesting comments bubbleup but it all depends on the venue as to weather you were booked as a live band or as a vocal band. if you are booked as a vocal band (duo or what ever) it is more than acceptable to use backing discs but if you are booked as a live band dont you think that it is cheating to use backing?
Personaly i am a vocalist and although i do some sequencing in the comfort of my own home i could never play these instrument live i would make to many mistakes. On a sequencer i can take my time and correct any mistakes i make.
But i am booked as a vocalist not as a live act so this seems to be accepted by the venues that i play and in four years i have had no complaints.
remember guys you can still edit out the keyboard part from a file and play that live, you can also listen to the track as a solo and learn it,so files are great learning tools to make you a better player.
If you want to work full time and make a good living playing cover music, then a duo or no no more than a 4 piece band is the way to go. With the available tech/gear , you can produce the sound of a large group [ including sampled vocals ] , which is how it is done by most of the big time rec acts anyway. The most consistent gigs out there are Cruise ships, casinos and corporate [private partys]. Forget playing free standing clubs unless you are really trying to make it in the original music scene, they do not pay good money[ if you can find the owner/mng at the end of the night].
Bands Vs. Duos
I play in a duo in UK and have the same problem. I used to play in bands all the time but tight budgets meant we all had to sell out! Now I go out with a huge lighting rig, 5k PA and sound better than any band Ive ever played in! Honestly , since the invention of the minidisc, it's so easy!
Still, you cant beat playing the real thing though!
Same story as every body else. Losts of bands, duos, solo. I pissed off the agents by booking direct for a year (duo) when my parnter had a child, I decided to go back to solo, the agents wouldn't book me. Before that I had a residency at Sydney Casino, and I was popular. I was, however, earning the same money I was making 10 YEARS AGO. When I started booking direct for that year, I made double. The agents have destroyed this industry, the pokies are simply pissing in the ashes (something you don't have to compete with in the UK at least). So now its back to caberet in the larger clubs. It stinks, but it pays the bills.
PS: yes I've seen my fair share of mimers, and, as a guitar player who does a LOT of sequencing, but isn't a great 'Live' keyboard player, I've been guilty of keyboard miming on the odd song (maybe one song every 2 shows) - but only if there is no guitar part, and as I sequenced the damn thing, at least I know where to put my fingers!!
PPS: If you're looking for work in Sydney, avoid Classic promotions, they owed me gig payments for six months, and only paid up when I sent them a summons to the claims court.
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