Re: Bassman head project

Discussion in 'rec.music.guitar' started by Odin, Aug 23, 2003.

  1. Odin

    Odin Guest

    "Jack A. Zucker" <jaz@jackzucker.com> wrote in message

    > I'm looking for a 50 watt fender reverb head/combo. Here's my idea. Take

    a
    > '60s or '70s BF Fender bassman head. Remove the circuit board and rewire

    the
    > thing to be a single channel Fender AB763 reverb amp. I'm thinking that a
    > small reverb tank might fit in the bassman head enclosure.
    >
    > I'd probably remove the existing circuit board altogether and try to make

    or
    > purchase a blank turret or eyelet board, preferably a "glass" one. I took

    a
    > look at some of the board kits out there but they are fairly expensive

    ($250
    > or more) and the AB763 board is for both channels and includes vibrato

    which
    > I wouldn't be implementing since the bassman only has 4 preamp tubes.
    >
    > Anyone done anything like this?


    Again. And again. And again. And again. You're seeking something that
    you keep obtaining and then it's not "right". What are you looking for?
    What you propose sounds like it would be easier to just buy an Allen amp
    kit and if there are a few component changes that you want to make just
    make them. He already has the "single channel 50 watt Fender with reverb"
    thing down to a science for a fair price.
  2. Odin

    Odin Guest

    "Miles O'Neal" <meo@rru.com> wrote in message

    > > Again. And again. And again. And again. You're seeking something

    that
    > > you keep obtaining and then it's not "right". What are you looking

    for?
    > > What you propose sounds like it would be easier to just buy an Allen

    amp
    > > kit and if there are a few component changes that you want to make just
    > > make them. He already has the "single channel 50 watt Fender with

    reverb"
    > > thing down to a science for a fair price.

    >
    > Hey! Are you *trying* to get this guy to start making
    > nasty comments about Allen on the net? Because, based
    > on consistent history, that is the inevitable result.


    Definitely not. It's just that Allen seems to have nailed the blackface
    thing for the player and the builder/player. Nobody really cares about the
    "Normal" channel so he left it off and he offers all the cool options. All
    for a fair price and the kits and amps are high quality. So if you're
    looking to "build" or mod an existing amp into a blackface amp why not just
    go Allen?
  3. Miles O'Neal

    Miles O'Neal Guest

    On Sat, 23 Aug 2003 20:07:28 +0000, Odin wrote:

    > Again. And again. And again. And again. You're seeking something that
    > you keep obtaining and then it's not "right". What are you looking for?
    > What you propose sounds like it would be easier to just buy an Allen amp
    > kit and if there are a few component changes that you want to make just
    > make them. He already has the "single channel 50 watt Fender with reverb"
    > thing down to a science for a fair price.


    Hey! Are you *trying* to get this guy to start making
    nasty comments about Allen on the net? Because, based
    on consistent history, that is the inevitable result.
  4. Miles,

    You're truly an ass.

    "Miles O'Neal" <meo@rru.com> wrote in message
    news:pan.2003.08.23.23.50.06.743838@rru.com...
    > On Sat, 23 Aug 2003 20:07:28 +0000, Odin wrote:
    >
    > > Again. And again. And again. And again. You're seeking something

    that
    > > you keep obtaining and then it's not "right". What are you looking for?
    > > What you propose sounds like it would be easier to just buy an Allen amp
    > > kit and if there are a few component changes that you want to make just
    > > make them. He already has the "single channel 50 watt Fender with

    reverb"
    > > thing down to a science for a fair price.

    >
    > Hey! Are you *trying* to get this guy to start making
    > nasty comments about Allen on the net? Because, based
    > on consistent history, that is the inevitable result.
  5. > On Sat, 23 Aug 2003 20:07:28 +0000, Odin wrote:
    >
    > > Again. And again. And again. And again. You're seeking something

    that
    > > you keep obtaining and then it's not "right". What are you looking for?
    > > What you propose sounds like it would be easier to just buy an Allen amp
    > > kit and if there are a few component changes that you want to make just
    > > make them. He already has the "single channel 50 watt Fender with

    reverb"
    > > thing down to a science for a fair price.


    I love Allen amps. I've owned several of his amps. They are fabulous in
    every way. My mistake was buying a bargain-priced boutique amp, thinking I'd
    get Allen quality or that I could fix it up. My bad...
  6. Tony Hwang

    Tony Hwang Guest

    Jack A. Zucker wrote:
    >>On Sat, 23 Aug 2003 20:07:28 +0000, Odin wrote:
    >>
    >>
    >>>Again. And again. And again. And again. You're seeking something

    >
    > that
    >
    >>>you keep obtaining and then it's not "right". What are you looking for?
    >>>What you propose sounds like it would be easier to just buy an Allen amp
    >>>kit and if there are a few component changes that you want to make just
    >>>make them. He already has the "single channel 50 watt Fender with

    >
    > reverb"
    >
    >>>thing down to a science for a fair price.

    >
    >
    > I love Allen amps. I've owned several of his amps. They are fabulous in
    > every way. My mistake was buying a bargain-priced boutique amp, thinking I'd
    > get Allen quality or that I could fix it up. My bad...
    >

    Hi,
    May I humbly hint that you are total lost cause?!
    If you're capable of fixing a bargain-priced boutique amp(what is that
    anyhow?), why in the hell don't you build one for yourself for your own
    liking?
    I recall you had two of those bargain-priced amps(whatever that means)?
    You just don't make logical sense to me. Do you?
    Anyone getting it?
    Tony
  7. (Cross-post retained for the purpose of this request.)

    Jack A. Zucker wrote:

    > Miles,
    >
    > You're truly an ass.
    >
    > [...]


    Good grief, would you guys mind removing rec.audio.tubes from this
    discussion?

    Thanks.

    Cheers,
    Fred
    --
    +--------------------------------------------+
    | Music: http://www3.telus.net/dogstarmusic/ |
    | Projects: http://dogstar.dantimax.dk |
    +--------------------------------------------+
  8. Goldtop71

    Goldtop71 Guest

    I'd buy a Holy Grail reverb pedal and go play the rig!
    Bassman's are great platforms for those folks who have to have Tube
    Screamers and all that stomp stuff on the floor anyway.

    "Jack A. Zucker" <jaz@jackzucker.com> wrote in message
    news:%4P1b.15910$2Y6.4949222@news2.news.adelphia.net...
    > I'm looking for a 50 watt fender reverb head/combo. Here's my idea. Take a
    > '60s or '70s BF Fender bassman head. Remove the circuit board and rewire

    the
    > thing to be a single channel Fender AB763 reverb amp. I'm thinking that a
    > small reverb tank might fit in the bassman head enclosure.
    >
    > I'd probably remove the existing circuit board altogether and try to make

    or
    > purchase a blank turret or eyelet board, preferably a "glass" one. I took

    a
    > look at some of the board kits out there but they are fairly expensive

    ($250
    > or more) and the AB763 board is for both channels and includes vibrato

    which
    > I wouldn't be implementing since the bassman only has 4 preamp tubes.
    >
    > Anyone done anything like this?
    >
    > --
    > http://www.jackzucker.com
    >
    >
  9. Odin

    Odin Guest

    "Jack A. Zucker" <jaz@jackzucker.com> wrote in message

    > > > Again. And again. And again. And again. You're seeking something
    > > > that you keep obtaining and then it's not "right". What are you

    looking for?
    > > > What you propose sounds like it would be easier to just buy an Allen

    amp
    > > > kit and if there are a few component changes that you want to make

    just
    > > > make them. He already has the "single channel 50 watt Fender with
    > > > reverb" thing down to a science for a fair price.

    >
    > I love Allen amps. I've owned several of his amps. They are fabulous in
    > every way. My mistake was buying a bargain-priced boutique amp, thinking

    I'd
    > get Allen quality or that I could fix it up. My bad...


    OK, I gotcha, then why not another Allen? Because thee isn't that much
    difference between the various flavors of 50 watt Fender blackface style
    amps. How about a Fuchs modded Bassman (Dumble)? His prices are
    reasonable if you supply the chassis. A Dumble is basically a modded
    Fender with a fancy distortion pedal built in.
  10. Anyway,

    Back to on-topic discussion...I was looking through some fender schematics
    last night and figured out that the bandmaster may be really what I'm
    looking for. The '71 version has 445V on the 6L6 plates with a 5U4
    (370-0-370 PT) I could use a GZ34 to get a little higher voltage if I decide
    I need it too. (Caps are OK but I'll have to check the rating on the choke).
    Of course, I'll need to replace the output transformer with something more
    stout because that's the sound I'm looking for and especially if I "up" the
    plate voltages...

    Anyway, the bandmaster seems to be a good platform for what I'm looking for.

    Jaz
  11. jh

    jh Guest

    "Jack A. Zucker" schrieb:
    >
    > Anyway,
    >
    > Back to on-topic discussion...I was looking through some fender schematics
    > last night and figured out that the bandmaster may be really what I'm

    ^^^^^^^^^^^^
    > looking for. The '71 version has 445V on the 6L6 plates with a 5U4
    > (370-0-370 PT) I could use a GZ34 to get a little higher voltage if I decide
    > I need it too. (Caps are OK but I'll have to check the rating on the choke).
    > Of course, I'll need to replace the output transformer with something more
    > stout because that's the sound I'm looking for and especially if I "up" the
    > plate voltages...
    >
    > Anyway, the bandmaster seems to be a good platform for what I'm looking for.
    >
    > Jaz


    Hi Jack,
    make it a bandmaster *REVERB* and it´s ok. The plain bandmaster Amp
    (regardless of SF or BF) has a SS rectifier...

    regards

    jochen
  12. "jh" <jh-audiop_NOSPAM@t-online.de> wrote in message
    news:3F48BF95.C12BF017@t-online.de...
    >
    > Hi Jack,
    > make it a bandmaster *REVERB* and it´s ok. The plain bandmaster Amp
    > (regardless of SF or BF) has a SS rectifier...
    >


    Yes - Sorry. It was the Bandmaster reverb I was looking at. I recall that
    the plain bandmaster had the SS rectifier and low plate voltages. Sorry for
    the mis-print! :)
  13. Jack A. Zucker wrote:
    > Anyway,
    >
    > Back to on-topic discussion...I was looking through some fender schematics
    > last night and figured out that the bandmaster may be really what I'm
    > looking for. The '71 version has 445V on the 6L6 plates with a 5U4
    > (370-0-370 PT) I could use a GZ34 to get a little higher voltage if I decide
    > I need it too. (Caps are OK but I'll have to check the rating on the choke).


    It's unlikely that you'd need to worry about the choke. Unlike
    capacitors, which are rated for maximum voltage, the choke will be rated
    for maximum current. Since most of the current is drawn by the plates of
    the 6L6's, and since in a beam tube the plate current is largely
    independant of plate voltage for a given bias point, the increase in
    current will be negligible (even if you decide to go yet further with SS
    rectification).

    If you decide to run the amp quite a bit hotter, it would be a good idea
    to monitor the choke (and power transformer) to make sure they don't
    overheat.

    Of course, chokes do have a maximum arc-over voltage rating, but this is
    typically on the order of a couple thousand volts - so no worries there
    either.

    > Of course, I'll need to replace the output transformer with something more
    > stout because that's the sound I'm looking for and especially if I "up" the
    > plate voltages...


    Agreed, musical instrument amplifiers generally tend to skimp a bit on
    the output iron. But you'll probably only really notice a difference
    when you're playing out, at lower levels the effect of a larger
    transformer will be a lot more subtle.

    Cheers,
    Fred
    --
    +--------------------------------------------+
    | Music: http://www3.telus.net/dogstarmusic/ |
    | Projects: http://dogstar.dantimax.dk |
    +--------------------------------------------+
  14. Odin

    Odin Guest

    "Jack A. Zucker" <jaz@jackzucker.com> wrote in message

    > > OK, I gotcha, then why not another Allen? Because thee isn't that much
    > > difference between the various flavors of 50 watt Fender blackface

    style
    > > amps. How about a Fuchs modded Bassman (Dumble)? His prices are
    > > reasonable if you supply the chassis. A Dumble is basically a modded
    > > Fender with a fancy distortion pedal built in.

    >
    > I'd love to get any one of those but I'm also very interested in learning
    > about modding/making amps myself so the bassman or bandmaster reverb

    project
    > is very appealing to me...


    In that case a silverface Bassman (45 watter) is cheap enough to use as a
    starting point. But they sound pretty damn good by themselves.
  15. "Odin" <res0jmoj@REMOVEverizon.net> wrote in message
    news:l172b.7584$081.176@nwrddc02.gnilink.net...
    >
    > "Jack A. Zucker" <jaz@jackzucker.com> wrote in message
    >
    > > > OK, I gotcha, then why not another Allen? Because thee isn't that

    much
    > > > difference between the various flavors of 50 watt Fender blackface

    > style
    > > > amps. How about a Fuchs modded Bassman (Dumble)? His prices are
    > > > reasonable if you supply the chassis. A Dumble is basically a modded
    > > > Fender with a fancy distortion pedal built in.

    > >
    > > I'd love to get any one of those but I'm also very interested in

    learning
    > > about modding/making amps myself so the bassman or bandmaster reverb

    > project
    > > is very appealing to me...

    >
    > In that case a silverface Bassman (45 watter) is cheap enough to use as a
    > starting point. But they sound pretty damn good by themselves.


    I may pick one of those up or a bandmaster to use as a platform. It's a
    cheap way of getting into it. I'm now thinking the bandmaster reverb head is
    the better way to go due to it's higher plate voltages, reverb and
    vibrato...

    Of course, if I happen to see an Allen Old Flame for $750, I'd just get that
    instead! :)

    Jaz
  16. Zorro_2K

    Zorro_2K Guest

    "Jack A. Zucker" <jaz@jackzucker.com> wrote in message
    news:%4P1b.15910$2Y6.4949222@news2.news.adelphia.net...
    > I'm looking for a 50 watt fender reverb head/combo. Here's my idea. Take a
    > '60s or '70s BF Fender bassman head. Remove the circuit board and rewire

    the
    > thing to be a single channel Fender AB763 reverb amp. I'm thinking that a
    > small reverb tank might fit in the bassman head enclosure.
    >
    > I'd probably remove the existing circuit board altogether and try to make

    or
    > purchase a blank turret or eyelet board, preferably a "glass" one. I took

    a
    > look at some of the board kits out there but they are fairly expensive

    ($250
    > or more) and the AB763 board is for both channels and includes vibrato

    which
    > I wouldn't be implementing since the bassman only has 4 preamp tubes.
    >
    > Anyone done anything like this?
    >
    > --
    > http://www.jackzucker.com
    >



    Sounds like one of Polfus' projects...how to ruin a perfectly good amp .
  17. Zorro_2K

    Zorro_2K Guest

    "Odin" <res0jmoj@REMOVEverizon.net> wrote in message
    news:4QP1b.5504$081.1337@nwrddc02.gnilink.net...
    >
    > "Jack A. Zucker" <jaz@jackzucker.com> wrote in message
    >
    > > I'm looking for a 50 watt fender reverb head/combo. Here's my idea. Take

    > a
    > > '60s or '70s BF Fender bassman head. Remove the circuit board and rewire

    > the
    > > thing to be a single channel Fender AB763 reverb amp. I'm thinking that

    a
    > > small reverb tank might fit in the bassman head enclosure.
    > >
    > > I'd probably remove the existing circuit board altogether and try to

    make
    > or
    > > purchase a blank turret or eyelet board, preferably a "glass" one. I

    took
    > a
    > > look at some of the board kits out there but they are fairly expensive

    > ($250
    > > or more) and the AB763 board is for both channels and includes vibrato

    > which
    > > I wouldn't be implementing since the bassman only has 4 preamp tubes.
    > >
    > > Anyone done anything like this?

    >
    > Again. And again. And again. And again. You're seeking something that
    > you keep obtaining and then it's not "right". What are you looking for?


    It's the fantasy..the thrill of the chase. But once you get "it", it then
    looses it's alure.


    > What you propose sounds like it would be easier to just buy an Allen amp
    > kit and if there are a few component changes that you want to make just
    > make them. He already has the "single channel 50 watt Fender with reverb"
    > thing down to a science for a fair price.
    >


    He wants to gut a BF Fender Bassman...to payextra money to destroy a good
    amp > LOL.
  18. Zorro_2K

    Zorro_2K Guest

    "Miles O'Neal" <meo@rru.com> wrote in message
    news:pan.2003.08.23.23.50.06.743838@rru.com...
    > On Sat, 23 Aug 2003 20:07:28 +0000, Odin wrote:
    >
    > > Again. And again. And again. And again. You're seeking something

    that
    > > you keep obtaining and then it's not "right". What are you looking for?
    > > What you propose sounds like it would be easier to just buy an Allen amp
    > > kit and if there are a few component changes that you want to make just
    > > make them. He already has the "single channel 50 watt Fender with

    reverb"
    > > thing down to a science for a fair price.

    >
    > Hey! Are you *trying* to get this guy to start making
    > nasty comments about Allen on the net? Because, based
    > on consistent history, that is the inevitable result.
    >


    This is the first I have heard about this phenomenon. I've heard the Alen
    Old Flame
    being gigged and it sounds damn nice.....
  19. Odin

    Odin Guest

    "Jack A. Zucker" <jaz@jackzucker.com> wrote in message

    > > In that case a silverface Bassman (45 watter) is cheap enough to use as

    a
    > > starting point. But they sound pretty damn good by themselves.

    >
    > I may pick one of those up or a bandmaster to use as a platform. It's a
    > cheap way of getting into it. I'm now thinking the bandmaster reverb head

    is
    > the better way to go due to it's higher plate voltages, reverb and
    > vibrato...


    If you want the reverb and vibrato then the Bandmaster would be better,
    although I always thought that the Bandmasters and Pro Reverbs were the
    weaker sounding blackface amps compared to the Super Reverbs and Bassmans
    and Twins.


    > Of course, if I happen to see an Allen Old Flame for $750, I'd just get

    that
    > instead! :)


    If you see 2 for $750 let me know and I'll probably pick one up myself.
    They do turn up on ebay sometimes but they seem to hold their value pretty
    well.
  20. Tony Hwang

    Tony Hwang Guest

    Zorro_2K wrote:

    > "Odin" <res0jmoj@REMOVEverizon.net> wrote in message
    > news:4QP1b.5504$081.1337@nwrddc02.gnilink.net...
    >
    >>"Jack A. Zucker" <jaz@jackzucker.com> wrote in message
    >>
    >>
    >>>I'm looking for a 50 watt fender reverb head/combo. Here's my idea. Take

    >>
    >>a
    >>
    >>>'60s or '70s BF Fender bassman head. Remove the circuit board and rewire

    >>
    >>the
    >>
    >>>thing to be a single channel Fender AB763 reverb amp. I'm thinking that

    >
    > a
    >
    >>>small reverb tank might fit in the bassman head enclosure.
    >>>
    >>>I'd probably remove the existing circuit board altogether and try to

    >
    > make
    >
    >>or
    >>
    >>>purchase a blank turret or eyelet board, preferably a "glass" one. I

    >
    > took
    >
    >>a
    >>
    >>>look at some of the board kits out there but they are fairly expensive

    >>
    >>($250
    >>
    >>>or more) and the AB763 board is for both channels and includes vibrato

    >>
    >>which
    >>
    >>>I wouldn't be implementing since the bassman only has 4 preamp tubes.
    >>>
    >>>Anyone done anything like this?

    >>
    >>Again. And again. And again. And again. You're seeking something that
    >>you keep obtaining and then it's not "right". What are you looking for?

    >
    >
    > It's the fantasy..the thrill of the chase. But once you get "it", it then
    > looses it's alure.
    >
    >
    >
    >>What you propose sounds like it would be easier to just buy an Allen amp
    >>kit and if there are a few component changes that you want to make just
    >>make them. He already has the "single channel 50 watt Fender with reverb"
    >>thing down to a science for a fair price.
    >>

    >
    >
    > He wants to gut a BF Fender Bassman...to payextra money to destroy a good
    > amp > LOL.


    Hi,
    Don't worry. IMO, it is nothing but talk. People talk a lot really never
    do anything. They dream, they wish, they ponder forever. At the end,
    nothing. I don't think there is such thing as perfect amp, like anything
    else in life. One reason people own/use more than one amp, one guitar,
    one cab., etc. Wish Jack all the good luck in pursuit of that
    perfect amp to his 100% satisfaction. Let us know when you get/find it.
    Tony

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