Re:US jazz stagnates was: Electricity In Jazz

Discussion in 'rec.music.percussion' started by Frode Berg, Jul 19, 2003.

  1. Michael Fell

    Michael Fell Guest

    Re: US jazz stagnates was: Electricity In Jazz

    On Sun, 20 Jul 2003 07:27:13 +0000 (UTC), "Dez Dankworth"
    <dez_dankworth@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:

    >"John Grabowski" <jgrab@earthlink.net> wrote in message
    >news:3F1A3C9C.2020703@earthlink.net
    >
    >> Michael Fell wrote:
    >>
    >> > I thought Coltrane took Jazz to it's limits. I don't think you can go
    >> > beyond Coltrane.

    >>
    >> This is exactly the sort of idiotic view that makes jazz stagnate and
    >> turn into museum mould. No one takes anything to "limits." There's no
    >> universal speed limit to creativity.

    >
    >The funny thing is that around the end (post mid-65), Coltrane wasn't
    >even playing jazz. His "sound experiments" were undoubtedly
    >interesting, but the sad thing is that some of his fans have mistaken
    >them for jazz and completely missed the point of what he was trying to
    >say.


    What was he trying to say?

    Mike
  2. Re: US jazz stagnates was: Electricity In Jazz

    In rec.music.makers.percussion Michael Fell <mfell2112@yahoo.com> wrote:

    > I thought Coltrane took Jazz to it's limits. I don't think you can go
    > beyond Coltrane. Perhaps there is some European jazz artist i don't
    > know about that surpassed Coltrane? If so, I would be very interested
    > in hearing this musician. Then hell will freeze over right?


    I know what you mean, only I though Baby Dodds took jazz to it's
    limits! I don't think jazz can go beyond that!

    >>they are now making museum pieces out of
    >>> it.


    > That's good. When something is good why change it?


    Yep, too bad Coltrane came after Dodds. What in hell was
    Coltrane thinking he was doing anyway? It sure wasn't Jazz!
    Right?

    >>Latin jazz being one such hot area that comes to mind!
    >>Benj


    > Benji, Latin Jazz has been around for decades and it is part of the
    > museum.


    It's no wonder you get ZERO respect around here Trellie. You
    work your mouth, but never your ears! The TERM Latin jazz has
    been around for decades and despite Tito's major promotions,
    to me it really never came up to a respectable jazz level. (Note
    Trellie that this has ZERO to do with intrumentation) But Today
    as I listen to what's going on out there I say, wow, that is
    Latin AND it is also jazz! (hence the term "Latin Jazz")
    As far as I'm concerned that never happened decades ago.

    Benj
    (Who actually has been around for decades and has heard it
    first hand)
    --
    SPAM-Guard! Remove .users (if present) to email me!
  3. Adam Bravo

    Adam Bravo Guest

    Re: US jazz stagnates was: Electricity In Jazz

    <bjacoby@users.iwaynet.net> wrote in message
    news:bfek0e$dg5$1@tribune.oar.net...
    > It's no wonder you get ZERO respect around here Trellie. You
    > work your mouth, but never your ears! The TERM Latin jazz has
    > been around for decades and despite Tito's major promotions,
    > to me it really never came up to a respectable jazz level. (Note
    > Trellie that this has ZERO to do with intrumentation)


    Come on. Don't you know that anything using congas is automatically "Latin?"
    And they're actually called bongos or congos. Bongos are also called bongos.
  4. Michael Fell

    Michael Fell Guest

    Re: US jazz stagnates was: Electricity In Jazz


    >It's no wonder you get ZERO respect around here Trellie.


    Coming from this Bozo who actually stated Jaco was overrated. Boy,
    that comment dropped you down several points on the IQ scale in my
    book. Hows that for trolling Benji?:)

    Mike
  5. Re: US jazz stagnates was: Electricity In Jazz

    In rec.music.makers.percussion Adam Bravo <mradam@cox.net> wrote:
    > <bjacoby@users.iwaynet.net> wrote in message
    > news:bfek0e$dg5$1@tribune.oar.net...
    >> It's no wonder you get ZERO respect around here Trellie. You
    >> work your mouth, but never your ears! The TERM Latin jazz has
    >> been around for decades and despite Tito's major promotions,
    >> to me it really never came up to a respectable jazz level. (Note
    >> Trellie that this has ZERO to do with intrumentation)


    > Come on. Don't you know that anything using congas is automatically "Latin?"
    > And they're actually called bongos or congos. Bongos are also called bongos.


    <snort!>
    I can see from your comments that you must actually play bongos
    (Those tall tapered bongos) Yeah I'm a bongo player too
    and I also play bongos as well. :)

    Benj
    (who wonders why drummers don't do violence more often than
    they do to the percussively clueless)

    --
    SPAM-Guard! Remove .users (if present) to email me!
  6. Re: US jazz stagnates was: Electricity In Jazz

    In rec.music.makers.percussion Michael Fell <mfell2112@yahoo.com> wrote:

    >>It's no wonder you get ZERO respect around here Trellie.


    > Coming from this Bozo who actually stated Jaco was overrated. Boy,
    > that comment dropped you down several points on the IQ scale in my
    > book. Hows that for trolling Benji?:)


    Lessee. Did it get a reply from me?
    DAMN! IT DID! :(

    Of course I simply copped the "ZERO" thing from Shoe.

    Benji
    --
    SPAM-Guard! Remove .users (if present) to email me!
  7. Bill Ray

    Bill Ray Guest

    Re: US jazz stagnates was: Electricity In Jazz

    Well I play congos so back off..... <g>

    BR


    <bjacoby@users.iwaynet.net> wrote in message
    news:bfib9s$luj$2@tribune.oar.net...
    > In rec.music.makers.percussion Adam Bravo <mradam@cox.net> wrote:
    > > <bjacoby@users.iwaynet.net> wrote in message
    > > news:bfek0e$dg5$1@tribune.oar.net...
    > >> It's no wonder you get ZERO respect around here Trellie. You
    > >> work your mouth, but never your ears! The TERM Latin jazz has
    > >> been around for decades and despite Tito's major promotions,
    > >> to me it really never came up to a respectable jazz level. (Note
    > >> Trellie that this has ZERO to do with intrumentation)

    >
    > > Come on. Don't you know that anything using congas is automatically

    "Latin?"
    > > And they're actually called bongos or congos. Bongos are also called

    bongos.
    >
    > <snort!>
    > I can see from your comments that you must actually play bongos
    > (Those tall tapered bongos) Yeah I'm a bongo player too
    > and I also play bongos as well. :)
    >
    > Benj
    > (who wonders why drummers don't do violence more often than
    > they do to the percussively clueless)
    >
    > --
    > SPAM-Guard! Remove .users (if present) to email me!
  8. sgordon

    sgordon Guest

    Re: US jazz stagnates was: Electricity In Jazz

    In rec.music.bluenote Bill Ray <bill@billraydrums.com_blah> wrote:
    : Well I play congos so back off..... <g>

    Aren't they called congas?

    Scott
  9. Re: US jazz stagnates was: Electricity In Jazz

    In rec.music.makers.bass sgordon <sgordon@sonic.net> wrote:
    > In rec.music.bluenote Bill Ray <bill@billraydrums.com_blah> wrote:
    > : Well I play congos so back off..... <g>


    > Aren't they called congas?


    Not by half-in-the-bag patrons who want to come
    up and pound on them!

    Benj

    --
    SPAM-Guard! Remove .users (if present) to email me!
  10. Re: US jazz stagnates was: Electricity In Jazz

    Frode Berg wrote:
    > Here's another heatlhy thread to discuss:
    >
    > US jazz in general has stagnated.


    I think most art in the US has stagnated. Can't speak for the whole
    world, but periods of art flourish and decline in any civilization, and
    I think we are in a period of decline. Serious decline.

    What's ironic is, we are now busting out with all sorts of technology
    that enhance and make more affordable artistic experiences (everything
    from portable CD players to home theater systems to simply the
    technology that allows them to make these special effects movie
    spectaculars) but this technology is not being used to do much.



    John

    --
    I have more money than God, but not as much as Oprah. --Roseanne Barr
  11. Bill Ray

    Bill Ray Guest

    Re: US jazz stagnates was: Electricity In Jazz

    THEIRS are congas. Mine are "Congos".

    That is what the guy in the newspaper called them. :)

    BR


    "sgordon" <sgordon@sonic.net> wrote in message
    news:H_bTa.4222$dk4.197481@typhoon.sonic.net...
    > In rec.music.bluenote Bill Ray <bill@billraydrums.com_blah> wrote:
    > : Well I play congos so back off..... <g>
    >
    > Aren't they called congas?
    >
    > Scott
    >
  12. Michael Fell

    Michael Fell Guest

    Re: US jazz stagnates was: Electricity In Jazz

    On 22 Jul 2003 03:36:34 GMT, bjacoby@users.iwaynet.net wrote:

    >In rec.music.makers.percussion Michael Fell <mfell2112@yahoo.com> wrote:
    >
    >>>It's no wonder you get ZERO respect around here Trellie.

    >
    >> Coming from this Bozo who actually stated Jaco was overrated. Boy,
    >> that comment dropped you down several points on the IQ scale in my
    >> book. Hows that for trolling Benji?:)

    >
    >Lessee. Did it get a reply from me?
    >DAMN! IT DID! :(
    >
    >Of course I simply copped the "ZERO" thing from Shoe.
    >
    >Benji


    I cop a lot of Schuisms although I stay clear of the nasty stuff.
    Sorry I called you a Bozo.

    Mike
  13. Robert Schuh

    Robert Schuh Guest

    Re: US jazz stagnates was: Electricity In Jazz

    John Grabowski wrote:

    > Michael Fell wrote:
    >
    > > I thought Coltrane took Jazz to it's limits. I don't think you can go
    > > beyond Coltrane.

    >
    > This is exactly the sort of idiotic view that makes jazz stagnate and
    > turn into museum mould. No one takes anything to "limits." There's no
    > universal speed limit to creativity.
    >
    > John
    >
    > --
    > Keep your friends close, and your enemies closer. --Don Corleone


    To John and EVERYONE else in RMB, let me hip you to something if you have
    not figured it out yourselves. This Fell character is probably THE biggest
    troll in the rec.music.makers.percussion newsgroup. He is basically a bigger
    joke than Amos. Fell knows NOTHING about Jazz. He is not a player nor a
    connoisseur. He talks and types just to do it. He is best kept in a kill
    file. I never see his comments in RMMP, but I have seen some of his drivel
    here and wanted to comment. ANYONE who would say Miles left Jazz when Wayne
    Shorter joined the band is just being an asshole.


    --
    Robert Schuh
    "Everything that elevates an individual above the herd and
    intimidates the neighbour is henceforth called evil; and
    the fair, modest, submissive and conforming mentality,
    the mediocrity of desires attains moral designations and honors"
    - Nietzsche

    "The meek shall inherit nothing" - Zappa
  14. Robert Schuh

    Robert Schuh Guest

    Re: US jazz stagnates was: Electricity In Jazz

    Bill Ray wrote:

    > True dat, Frode.
    >
    > American Jazz has turned into either this stuffy wallpaper music that they
    > play at cocktail hour because it's non-threatening and "quiet" and the
    > purists can sit there in their ivory towers and reminesce on the 'good ol'
    > days'. Or, it's gone completely the opposite way and turned into the Jacuzzi
    > Jazz variety (read "Lights-Out Jazz")
    >
    > OTOH, I think that the SPIRIT of jazz has opened many doors and evolved such
    > artists as Tribal Tech (Scott Henderson) Jonas Hellborg, Project Z, and
    > others in that frame. Hell, even the Grateful Dead had jazz stylings within
    > the paradigm of their music!
    >
    > In my travels to Europe I can say that the Europeans have got the jazz bag
    > DOWN. They took an American art form and have upheld it better than anything
    > I've seen.
    >
    > Now go throw up, all you jazz nazis! When you're done, get with the times.
    >
    > BR
    >


    Bill,
    Why do you even bother commenting on Jazz? You know NOTHING about what is going
    on in Jazz. Tribal Tech etc. is really dated sounding fusion that should have
    died 20 years ago. You have never heard of Cecil Taylor, Dave Douglas, Tony
    Malaby, Mark Helias, George Garzone and a million other Jazz musicians who are
    playing KILLER music that while is VERY new and refreshing, it still has a
    direct lineage to Bird, Trane etc. Sorry to tell you, but the European guys do
    not have the Jazz thing down. Your sheltered little life of playing at Sea World
    and wife beaters has implanted this nonsense in your head, but until you know
    what is going on musically, don't comment. Your first sentence above has to be
    THE most ignorant comment I have seen in Usenet in a LONG time. Then again,
    there always have to me morons around so that those who know what they are
    talking about stand out. I have seen it ALL now. Fucking Bill Ray is now
    commenting on the state of American Jazz. Hey Bill, can you name a single Jazz
    drummer who is playing today who is not being brown nosed by MD and other such
    fish wraps?

    >
    > "Frode Berg" <frode@frodeberg.com> wrote in message
    > news:Tt7Sa.3652$BD3.1798929@juliett.dax.net...
    > > Here's another heatlhy thread to discuss:
    > >
    > > US jazz in general has stagnated.
    > > US jazz musicians are so obsessed with the tradition of their music that
    > > instead of developing it and letting it eveolve naturally as it did from

    > the
    > > beginning up until approx 1970,- they are now making museum pieces out of
    > > it.
    > >
    > > To hear groundbraking jazz these days (the further development of the

    > music
    > > known as jazz) one has to go to Europe.
    > > There the music is constantly developing and shifting through influences

    > of
    > > European classical music, folk music etc.
    > >
    > > Seriously though, I read only Yesterday in a couple of reviews of a
    > > Scandinavian jazz album the notion that "In the US you more often than not
    > > get players competing to burn each other of the stage by playing a

    > fiercer,
    > > more aggressive, faster or whatever chorus than the previous performer,
    > > while in Europe the concern is the music, and not the ego"
    > >
    > > I do not agree in this, but some of it has some level of trouth.
    > > I am in Europe, and we also play jazz, just like americans play classical
    > > music and pop.(Beatles were the first pop band, so it's european)
    > >
    > > Let the discussion begin.
    > >
    > > Frode Berg
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > > "John Grabowski" <jgrab@earthlink.net> skrev i melding
    > > news:3F18E585.5040109@earthlink.net...
    > > > Zee Dodo wrote:
    > > > > "If there has to be electricity, I want it to come from me"
    > > > > - KEITH JARRETT
    > > > >
    > > > > Friends, let us consider the facts here:
    > > > >
    > > > > * In the entire history of jazz music, in which hundreds of thousands,
    > > > > if not millions have played jazz or had a go at trying to, less than
    > > > > 10 people --- yes, less than 0.0001% -- have succeeded in making jazz
    > > > > music on electric instruments.
    > > >
    > > > Are you including vibes players here?
    > > >
    > > > And have you checked in with your answering service lately?
    > > >
    > > >
    > > >
    > > > John
    > > >
    > > > --
    > > > Keep your friends close, and your enemies closer. --Don Corleone
    > > >

    > >
    > >





    --
    Robert Schuh
    "Everything that elevates an individual above the herd and
    intimidates the neighbour is henceforth called evil; and
    the fair, modest, submissive and conforming mentality,
    the mediocrity of desires attains moral designations and honors"
    - Nietzsche

    "The meek shall inherit nothing" - Zappa
  15. O-Lugs

    O-Lugs Guest

    Re: US jazz stagnates was: Electricity In Jazz

    "Frode Berg" <frode@frodeberg.com> wrote in message news:<Tt7Sa.3652$BD3.1798929@juliett.dax.net>...
    > Here's another heatlhy thread to discuss:
    >
    > US jazz in general has stagnated.

    .....It sure has. Wynton Marsalis has been pounding the wooden stakes
    in the heart of jazz for decades.
    > US jazz musicians are so obsessed with the tradition of their music that
    > instead of developing it and letting it eveolve naturally as it did from the
    > beginning up until approx 1970,- they are now making museum pieces out of
    > it.

    .....America is all about competition now. It's been this way for
    decades. It's like a big circle-jerk of "monster" wannabe players all
    competing for the same few gigs. The art of the ensemble still exists,
    but you have to look for it.
    >
    > To hear groundbraking jazz these days (the further development of the music
    > known as jazz) one has to go to Europe.

    .....Well, I agree that there is some really cool European stuff. I do
    enjoy listening to many of the ECM recordings and I especially like
    Bobo Stenson's trio with Jon Christensen on drums and Anders Jormin on
    bass. Incredible players.
    > There the music is constantly developing and shifting through influences of
    > European classical music, folk music etc.

    .....Here, we have what is known as the "music business" It exists,
    basically, to destroy anything that threatens the success-for-sales
    formula, such as something unfamiliar-sounding. There are plenty of
    great jazz players here, but you might only ever hear a fraction of
    them outside of the places they live/work because maybe they don't go
    on tour or maybe they have family commitments. Don't just let what you
    hear on recordings be your guide in all of this. Chalk it up to an
    art-ignorant music business and not the players.
    >
    > Seriously though, I read only Yesterday in a couple of reviews of a
    > Scandinavian jazz album the notion that "In the US you more often than not
    > get players competing to burn each other of the stage by playing a fiercer,
    > more aggressive, faster or whatever chorus than the previous performer,
    > while in Europe the concern is the music, and not the ego"

    .....This may be due to tha fact that most jazz players in America are
    free-lancers. In other words, most guys can't afford to pledge
    allegiance to any one group and, as a by-product, don't develop a
    sense of ensemble playing as much as their own individuality. And,
    without SOME ego, there is no music. Art of any kind is always from
    the ego. It's just that Americans are more competetive and have bigger
    egos as a result.
    >
    > I do not agree in this, but some of it has some level of trouth.
    > I am in Europe, and we also play jazz, just like americans play classical
    > music and pop.(Beatles were the first pop band, so it's european)


    >
    > Let the discussion begin.
    >
    > Frode Berg
    >
    >
    >
    > "John Grabowski" <jgrab@earthlink.net> skrev i melding
    > news:3F18E585.5040109@earthlink.net...
    > > Zee Dodo wrote:
    > > > "If there has to be electricity, I want it to come from me"
    > > > - KEITH JARRETT
    > > >
    > > > Friends, let us consider the facts here:
    > > >
    > > > * In the entire history of jazz music, in which hundreds of thousands,
    > > > if not millions have played jazz or had a go at trying to, less than
    > > > 10 people --- yes, less than 0.0001% -- have succeeded in making jazz
    > > > music on electric instruments.

    > >
    > > Are you including vibes players here?
    > >
    > > And have you checked in with your answering service lately?
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > > John
    > >
    > > --
    > > Keep your friends close, and your enemies closer. --Don Corleone
    > >
  16. Bill Ray

    Bill Ray Guest

    Re: US jazz stagnates was: Electricity In Jazz

    Oh sorry Schuh I forgot that you are the god of Jazz and must be genuflected
    towards.

    I grew up on Art Blakey, Ramsey Lewis, Howard Roberts, etc..... and know
    "just a little" about Jazz. Deal is, I play jazz. Doesn't that just piss you
    off Rob?

    I took my Sea World gig out of choice. It's steady and if you knew ANYTHING
    about making a living Playing music and nothing else you'd appreciate the
    "steady gig."

    But then again, since the god of Jazz is living in Arizona I guess that's
    the new Jazz mecca.


    I could name many Jazz drummers who aren't being brownnosed but that would
    only lengthen my reply to you, which is already about this many words too
    long.

    BR



    "Robert Schuh" <rob@robschuh.com> wrote in message
    news:3F1E1E95.BBAE7180@robschuh.com...
    > Bill Ray wrote:
    >
    > > True dat, Frode.
    > >
    > > American Jazz has turned into either this stuffy wallpaper music that

    they
    > > play at cocktail hour because it's non-threatening and "quiet" and the
    > > purists can sit there in their ivory towers and reminesce on the 'good

    ol'
    > > days'. Or, it's gone completely the opposite way and turned into the

    Jacuzzi
    > > Jazz variety (read "Lights-Out Jazz")
    > >
    > > OTOH, I think that the SPIRIT of jazz has opened many doors and evolved

    such
    > > artists as Tribal Tech (Scott Henderson) Jonas Hellborg, Project Z, and
    > > others in that frame. Hell, even the Grateful Dead had jazz stylings

    within
    > > the paradigm of their music!
    > >
    > > In my travels to Europe I can say that the Europeans have got the jazz

    bag
    > > DOWN. They took an American art form and have upheld it better than

    anything
    > > I've seen.
    > >
    > > Now go throw up, all you jazz nazis! When you're done, get with the

    times.
    > >
    > > BR
    > >

    >
    > Bill,
    > Why do you even bother commenting on Jazz? You know NOTHING about what is

    going
    > on in Jazz. Tribal Tech etc. is really dated sounding fusion that should

    have
    > died 20 years ago. You have never heard of Cecil Taylor, Dave Douglas,

    Tony
    > Malaby, Mark Helias, George Garzone and a million other Jazz musicians who

    are
    > playing KILLER music that while is VERY new and refreshing, it still has a
    > direct lineage to Bird, Trane etc. Sorry to tell you, but the European

    guys do
    > not have the Jazz thing down. Your sheltered little life of playing at Sea

    World
    > and wife beaters has implanted this nonsense in your head, but until you

    know
    > what is going on musically, don't comment. Your first sentence above has

    to be
    > THE most ignorant comment I have seen in Usenet in a LONG time. Then

    again,
    > there always have to me morons around so that those who know what they are
    > talking about stand out. I have seen it ALL now. Fucking Bill Ray is now
    > commenting on the state of American Jazz. Hey Bill, can you name a single

    Jazz
    > drummer who is playing today who is not being brown nosed by MD and other

    such
    > fish wraps?
    >
    > >
    > > "Frode Berg" <frode@frodeberg.com> wrote in message
    > > news:Tt7Sa.3652$BD3.1798929@juliett.dax.net...
    > > > Here's another heatlhy thread to discuss:
    > > >
    > > > US jazz in general has stagnated.
    > > > US jazz musicians are so obsessed with the tradition of their music

    that
    > > > instead of developing it and letting it eveolve naturally as it did

    from
    > > the
    > > > beginning up until approx 1970,- they are now making museum pieces out

    of
    > > > it.
    > > >
    > > > To hear groundbraking jazz these days (the further development of the

    > > music
    > > > known as jazz) one has to go to Europe.
    > > > There the music is constantly developing and shifting through

    influences
    > > of
    > > > European classical music, folk music etc.
    > > >
    > > > Seriously though, I read only Yesterday in a couple of reviews of a
    > > > Scandinavian jazz album the notion that "In the US you more often than

    not
    > > > get players competing to burn each other of the stage by playing a

    > > fiercer,
    > > > more aggressive, faster or whatever chorus than the previous

    performer,
    > > > while in Europe the concern is the music, and not the ego"
    > > >
    > > > I do not agree in this, but some of it has some level of trouth.
    > > > I am in Europe, and we also play jazz, just like americans play

    classical
    > > > music and pop.(Beatles were the first pop band, so it's european)
    > > >
    > > > Let the discussion begin.
    > > >
    > > > Frode Berg
    > > >
    > > >
    > > >
    > > > "John Grabowski" <jgrab@earthlink.net> skrev i melding
    > > > news:3F18E585.5040109@earthlink.net...
    > > > > Zee Dodo wrote:
    > > > > > "If there has to be electricity, I want it to come from me"
    > > > > > - KEITH JARRETT
    > > > > >
    > > > > > Friends, let us consider the facts here:
    > > > > >
    > > > > > * In the entire history of jazz music, in which hundreds of

    thousands,
    > > > > > if not millions have played jazz or had a go at trying to, less

    than
    > > > > > 10 people --- yes, less than 0.0001% -- have succeeded in making

    jazz
    > > > > > music on electric instruments.
    > > > >
    > > > > Are you including vibes players here?
    > > > >
    > > > > And have you checked in with your answering service lately?
    > > > >
    > > > >
    > > > >
    > > > > John
    > > > >
    > > > > --
    > > > > Keep your friends close, and your enemies closer. --Don Corleone
    > > > >
    > > >
    > > >

    >
    >
    >
    >
    > --
    > Robert Schuh
    > "Everything that elevates an individual above the herd and
    > intimidates the neighbour is henceforth called evil; and
    > the fair, modest, submissive and conforming mentality,
    > the mediocrity of desires attains moral designations and honors"
    > - Nietzsche
    >
    > "The meek shall inherit nothing" - Zappa
    >
    >
  17. Jeff Snider

    Jeff Snider Guest

    Re: US jazz stagnates was: Electricity In Jazz

    >> Let the discussion begin.

    Oh God, please let it end....


    Jeff Snider

    "I love Wagner, but the music I prefer is that of a cat hung up by
    its tail outside a window and trying to stick to the panes of glass
    with its back claws." -- Charles Baudelaire
  18. Antoine Brun

    Antoine Brun Guest

    Re: US jazz stagnates was: Electricity In Jazz

    Hello,

    I'm French bass player , I played a little bit of jazz and I know a few
    jazz player (on various instrument, not only bass) and I never heard any
    of them saying that jazz with electricity was not jazz.
    When talking about what is jazz, the argument would be on the rythm
    (does jazz has to be ternary or can it be binary rythm or binary rythm
    but ternary chorus), or the harmony used, the improvisation, the music
    made on the fly with other people, whatever, but never about the
    instruments used.
    If one can express him selk with an electric bass, so what?

    Antoine



    Frode Berg wrote:
    > Here's another heatlhy thread to discuss:
    >
    > US jazz in general has stagnated.
    > US jazz musicians are so obsessed with the tradition of their music that
    > instead of developing it and letting it eveolve naturally as it did from the
    > beginning up until approx 1970,- they are now making museum pieces out of
    > it.
    >
    > To hear groundbraking jazz these days (the further development of the music
    > known as jazz) one has to go to Europe.
    > There the music is constantly developing and shifting through influences of
    > European classical music, folk music etc.
    >
    > Seriously though, I read only Yesterday in a couple of reviews of a
    > Scandinavian jazz album the notion that "In the US you more often than not
    > get players competing to burn each other of the stage by playing a fiercer,
    > more aggressive, faster or whatever chorus than the previous performer,
    > while in Europe the concern is the music, and not the ego"
    >
    > I do not agree in this, but some of it has some level of trouth.
    > I am in Europe, and we also play jazz, just like americans play classical
    > music and pop.(Beatles were the first pop band, so it's european)
    >
    > Let the discussion begin.
    >
    > Frode Berg
    >
    >
    >
    > "John Grabowski" <jgrab@earthlink.net> skrev i melding
    > news:3F18E585.5040109@earthlink.net...
    >
    >>Zee Dodo wrote:
    >>
    >>>"If there has to be electricity, I want it to come from me"
    >>> - KEITH JARRETT
    >>>
    >>>Friends, let us consider the facts here:
    >>>
    >>>* In the entire history of jazz music, in which hundreds of thousands,
    >>>if not millions have played jazz or had a go at trying to, less than
    >>>10 people --- yes, less than 0.0001% -- have succeeded in making jazz
    >>>music on electric instruments.

    >>
    >>Are you including vibes players here?
    >>
    >>And have you checked in with your answering service lately?
    >>
    >>
    >>
    >>John
    >>
    >>--
    >>Keep your friends close, and your enemies closer. --Don Corleone
    >>

    >
    >
    >
  19. BKO

    BKO Guest

    Re: US jazz stagnates was: Electricity In Jazz

    I used to have a Bonga :)

    BKO

    "Bill Ray" <bill@billraydrums.com_BLAH> wrote in message
    news:_zfTa.13825$Bp2.9512@fed1read07...
    > THEIRS are congas. Mine are "Congos".
    >
    > That is what the guy in the newspaper called them. :)
    >
    > BR
  20. Re: US jazz stagnates was: Electricity In Jazz

    In rec.music.makers.percussion Antoine Brun <Antoine.Brun@inrialpes.fr> wrote:
    > Hello,


    > I'm French bass player , I played a little bit of jazz and I know a few
    > jazz player (on various instrument, not only bass) and I never heard any
    > of them saying that jazz with electricity was not jazz.
    > When talking about what is jazz, the argument would be on the rythm
    > (does jazz has to be ternary or can it be binary rythm or binary rythm
    > but ternary chorus), or the harmony used, the improvisation, the music
    > made on the fly with other people, whatever, but never about the
    > instruments used.
    > If one can express him selk with an electric bass, so what?


    Antoine,
    Don't worry, this is not a serious discussion. It's just
    some of the resident trolls in RMMP and the cult of the Blue Note,
    dangling bait in the water so they can get off on all the thrashing
    and splashing!

    We all know jazz is NOT defined by instrumentation. These
    guys just latched on to a fake definition (Jazz=acoustic Instruments;
    Fusion = electric instruments... which isn't even right for fusion either
    since it also isn't defined by instrumentations).

    Bottom line: Yeah it was fun, but don't think you actually
    learned anything here. Trolls get off by muddying the waters rather
    than clarifying things.

    Later

    Benj
    (This bait is old, I'm outta here)
    --
    SPAM-Guard! Remove .users (if present) to email me!

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