semi-acoustic/electric-acoustic question

Discussion in 'rec.music.guitar' started by onions, Aug 19, 2003.

  1. onions

    onions Guest

    I've seen pictures of the insides of ES335 type guitars with a block
    of wood running between the neck block and tail piece, what puzzles me
    is how the ES-330's are made; they purport to be completely hollow, so
    how is the bridge mounted? It doesn't sit on a wooden 'foot' like a
    true arch top - the bridge seems to be mounted on posts like other
    Gibson solids - is the laminated top strong enough to allow this
    construction or is there some extra reinforcement going on underneath
    the bridge?

    TIA

    -Onions
  2. CyberSerf

    CyberSerf Guest

    The Gibson ES335 (like 135, 137, 175, 235 and the Gibsons 330, 345, 347 and
    355...including Lucille) is purported to be a semi-hollow body guitar...no
    other claims have been made unless by someone who has absolutely no
    knowledge of guitars...for the exact reason you mention...they are not
    hollow-body, they are not solid wood tops...they are laminated, they have a
    center block between the end block and the neck block, on which the bridge,
    stop piece (or trapeze) and PU's are affixed in such a manner as to
    minimize feedback. They are not archtop guitars (although the tops and backs
    are sometimes pressed to an arch), but they are a semi-hollow body guitar
    and they are proud of it!

    Now, I think the ES-125 is a completely hollow body...BTW, ES stands for
    Electro-Spanish...WTF is spanish about Lucille?

    -CS

    --
    ---
    The opinions, comments, and advice offered by me, are mine alone.
    As such, they carry as much weight as a feather in a snow storm.
    Gear Page at: http://www3.sympatico.ca/cybrserf/Gear.htm


    "onions" <onions@primus.com> wrote in message
    news:ued4kvochtsnc3p6paoaa1fiqpean5r0a6@4ax.com...
    > I've seen pictures of the insides of ES335 type guitars with a block
    > of wood running between the neck block and tail piece, what puzzles me
    > is how the ES-330's are made; they purport to be completely hollow, so
    > how is the bridge mounted? It doesn't sit on a wooden 'foot' like a
    > true arch top - the bridge seems to be mounted on posts like other
    > Gibson solids - is the laminated top strong enough to allow this
    > construction or is there some extra reinforcement going on underneath
    > the bridge?
    >
    > TIA
    >
    > -Onions
  3. Dan Stanley

    Dan Stanley Guest

    "CyberSerf" <nospam.cybrserf@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
    news:%Qv0b.4307$HB4.535503@news20.bellglobal.com...
    > The Gibson ES335 (like 135, 137, 175, 235 and the Gibsons 330, 345, 347

    and
    > 355...including Lucille) is purported to be a semi-hollow body guitar...no
    > other claims have been made unless by someone who has absolutely no
    > knowledge of guitars...for the exact reason you mention...they are not
    > hollow-body, they are not solid wood tops...they are laminated, they have

    a
    > center block between the end block and the neck block, on which the

    bridge,
    > stop piece (or trapeze) and PU's are affixed in such a manner as to
    > minimize feedback. They are not archtop guitars (although the tops and

    backs
    > are sometimes pressed to an arch), but they are a semi-hollow body guitar
    > and they are proud of it!
    >
    > Now, I think the ES-125 is a completely hollow body...BTW, ES stands for
    > Electro-Spanish...WTF is spanish about Lucille?


    Back in the days when Gibson was naming them guitars, most people played in
    one of two ways.
    Lap Style ( which was, believe it or not, far more popular among the regular
    joes of the world) and Spanish style, which is what we consider "normal"
    now.

    And that is why all those ES guitars are called that, still.

    You can even find ads for the brand new Tele of '49 or whatever, advertising
    it as a 'Spanish style' guitar.

    Dan
  4. CyberSerf

    CyberSerf Guest

    Dan,

    Thanks for that...I knew that guitars came to America with a popularity
    made by the likes of Django R. and that many players with the big bands
    managed to break through because the electric amplification finally allowed
    them to take the spotlight as a solo instrument...I also know that in the
    1920's through the '40's, the best guitarists and, presumably, guitars where
    said to come from Spain. The use of Spanish in many of the adverts of the
    era seem to back up the conception and I frankly thought the ES designation
    was some sort of sales gimmick from Gibson that managed to survive the
    years...I had no idea it was an actual playing "style". I appreciate the
    lesson in history. Uhm...I wonder what they'd call Jeff Healy's style...Lap
    Span? ;-)

    Cheers, CS

    --
    ---
    The opinions, comments, and advice offered by me, are mine alone.
    As such, they carry as much weight as a feather in a snow storm.
    Gear Page at: http://www3.sympatico.ca/cybrserf/Gear.htm


    "Dan Stanley" <vze2bjcf@verizon.net> wrote in message
    news:mxx0b.9563$N37.1338@nwrdny02.gnilink.net...
    >
    > "CyberSerf" <nospam.cybrserf@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
    > news:%Qv0b.4307$HB4.535503@news20.bellglobal.com...
    > > The Gibson ES335 (like 135, 137, 175, 235 and the Gibsons 330, 345, 347

    > and
    > > 355...including Lucille) is purported to be a semi-hollow body

    guitar...no
    > > other claims have been made unless by someone who has absolutely no
    > > knowledge of guitars...for the exact reason you mention...they are not
    > > hollow-body, they are not solid wood tops...they are laminated, they

    have
    > a
    > > center block between the end block and the neck block, on which the

    > bridge,
    > > stop piece (or trapeze) and PU's are affixed in such a manner as to
    > > minimize feedback. They are not archtop guitars (although the tops and

    > backs
    > > are sometimes pressed to an arch), but they are a semi-hollow body

    guitar
    > > and they are proud of it!
    > >
    > > Now, I think the ES-125 is a completely hollow body...BTW, ES stands for
    > > Electro-Spanish...WTF is spanish about Lucille?

    >
    > Back in the days when Gibson was naming them guitars, most people played

    in
    > one of two ways.
    > Lap Style ( which was, believe it or not, far more popular among the

    regular
    > joes of the world) and Spanish style, which is what we consider "normal"
    > now.
    >
    > And that is why all those ES guitars are called that, still.
    >
    > You can even find ads for the brand new Tele of '49 or whatever,

    advertising
    > it as a 'Spanish style' guitar.
    >
    > Dan
    >
    >
  5. onions

    onions Guest

    Sorry - I should have made my post a little clearer. The question
    wasn't meant to be taken as one of guitar nomenclature.

    When I asked about the ES-330 - I actually meant that one model -not
    the 300 series. I have always read that this guitar was different from
    the 335/345/355 and 340 as it lacked the centre block ( I think the
    neck is shorter too). I was really wondering what happens under the
    stud bridge of that particular model (the 330).

    Anyone have actual experience of looking inside one of these?

    -respect

    onions





    On Tue, 19 Aug 2003 18:57:39 -0400, "CyberSerf"
    <nospam.cybrserf@sympatico.ca> wrote:

    The Gibson ES335 (like 135, 137, 175, 235 and the Gibsons 330, 345,
    347 and
    355...including Lucille) is purported to be a semi-hollow body
    guitar...no
    other claims have been made unless by someone who has absolutely no
    knowledge of guitars...for the exact reason you mention...they are not
    hollow-body, they are not solid wood tops...they are laminated, they
    have a
    center block between the end block and the neck block, on which the
    bridge,
    stop piece (or trapeze) and PU's are affixed in such a manner as to
    minimize feedback. They are not archtop guitars (although the tops and
    backs
    are sometimes pressed to an arch), but they are a semi-hollow body
    guitar
    and they are proud of it!

    Now, I think the ES-125 is a completely hollow body...BTW, ES stands
    for
    Electro-Spanish...WTF is spanish about Lucille?

    -CS

    --
    ---
    The opinions, comments, and advice offered by me, are mine alone.
    As such, they carry as much weight as a feather in a snow storm.
    Gear Page at: http://www3.sympatico.ca/cybrserf/Gear.htm
  6. Re: Re: semi-acoustic/electric-acoustic question

    On Tue, 19 Aug 2003 16:44:56 -0400, "CyberSerf"
    <nospam.cybrserf@sympatico.ca> wrote:

    >The Gibson ES335 (like 135, 137, 175, 235 and the Gibsons 330, 345, 347 and
    >355...including Lucille) is purported to be a semi-hollow body guitar...no
    >other claims have been made unless by someone who has absolutely no
    >knowledge of guitars...


    The ES-335 is semi-hollow, as the original poster said. The 330 IS
    hollow...it's not just a 335 with single-coils.
  7. CyberSerf

    CyberSerf Guest

    Re: Re: semi-acoustic/electric-acoustic question

    Mike (and onion),

    Sorry, I was not aware of the lack of a center block in the ES-330...must
    have been an exceptional year.

    This is from the Intersilo Guitar Pages

    Standard Specifications

    ES-355 / ES-345 / ES-340 / ES-335 / ES-330 / ES -325

    BODY
    16"(W)x19"(L)x1 3/4"(D)
    double rounded cutaway
    maple top,back and sides
    NECK
    24 3/4" scale length
    one piece mahogany
    neck to body join on 19th fret
    22 fret rosewood fingerboard

    * the 1st variant ES-330 joined the body at the 16 th fret
    the ES-355TD-SV was made with an ebony fingerboard
    the ES-340 neck was constructed with laminated maple

    No mention of the lack of a center block...although you'd think that would
    be a major difference.

    This from the Gibson Blue Book:

    ES-330 T - double round cutaway semi-hollow bound body, arched maple top,
    raised bound black pickguard, f-holes, maple back/sides, mahogany neck, 22
    fret bound rosewood fingerboard with pearl dot inlay, tune-o-matic
    bridge/trapeze tailpiece, blackface peghead with pearl logo inlay, 3 per
    side tuners with plastic buttons, nickel
    hardware, single coil pickup, volume/tone control. Available in Cherry,
    Natural and Sunburst finishes. Mfd. 1959 to 1963.
    ES-330 TD - similar to ES-330 T, except has 2 single coil pickups, 2
    volume/2 tone controls, 3 position switch. Mfd. 1959 to 1972

    Again, specific mention is made calling the 330 a Semi-Hollow...the Herb
    Ellis ES-165 was hollow as were many early 125's. Finally, the two I've
    personally played have had center blocks...any idea when they took it out?
    Ah well...ya learn something new everyday.

    Cheers, CS

    --
    ---
    The opinions, comments, and advice offered by me, are mine alone.
    As such, they carry as much weight as a feather in a snow storm.
    Gear Page at: http://www3.sympatico.ca/cybrserf/Gear.htm


    "Mike McKernan" <mikemck333@optonline.net> wrote in message
    news:sqm5kvsuabgdpal001424v7mgl4logri1h@4ax.com...
    > On Tue, 19 Aug 2003 16:44:56 -0400, "CyberSerf"
    > <nospam.cybrserf@sympatico.ca> wrote:
    >
    > >The Gibson ES335 (like 135, 137, 175, 235 and the Gibsons 330, 345, 347

    and
    > >355...including Lucille) is purported to be a semi-hollow body

    guitar...no
    > >other claims have been made unless by someone who has absolutely no
    > >knowledge of guitars...

    >
    > The ES-335 is semi-hollow, as the original poster said. The 330 IS
    > hollow...it's not just a 335 with single-coils.
  8. Re: Re: Re: semi-acoustic/electric-acoustic question

    On Wed, 20 Aug 2003 07:15:14 -0400, "CyberSerf"
    <nospam.cybrserf@sympatico.ca> wrote:


    >
    >No mention of the lack of a center block...although you'd think that would
    >be a major difference.
    >
    >...
    >
    >Again, specific mention is made calling the 330 a Semi-Hollow...the Herb
    >Ellis ES-165 was hollow as were many early 125's. Finally, the two I've
    >personally played have had center blocks...any idea when they took it out?
    >Ah well...ya learn something new everyday.


    This is one of those things that's gotten wrong more than it's gotten
    right. I've seen other inconsistencies in the Gibson Blue Book
    listings, so I'd check beyond that.

    The only 330 I ever played was a long time ago, in a vintage shop
    that's no longer there (Outlaw Guitars). I wouldn't have looked
    inside, except that the salesman pointed out that I might have
    feedback problems with a 330.

    Here are a couple of references:

    http://www.hendrixguitars.com/Gi303.htm
    http://home.tiscali.nl/~heteren/Guitars69-71.htm (about 2/3 down the
    page)
    http://www.provide.net/~cfh/gibson4.html

    The last one directly compares the 330 to the 335, since it's so easy
    to assume they're the same body.

    I did once hear of someone who had a block added to a 330, because the
    330 would feedback at volume. The block in the 335/345/355 was not so
    much structural as it was to prevent feedback. That's why the block
    was balsa (called "chromyte" by Gibson) instead of something a little
    more solid.
  9. Re: Re: Re: semi-acoustic/electric-acoustic question

    On Wed, 20 Aug 2003 07:15:14 -0400, "CyberSerf"
    <nospam.cybrserf@sympatico.ca> wrote:

    To add to my last post...

    I just did a little searching and found that there was an ES-330
    re-issue. Maybe they did this with a center block...apparently the
    re-issue was discontinued, so I can't verify this.
  10. CyberSerf

    CyberSerf Guest

    Re: Re: Re: semi-acoustic/electric-acoustic question

    Thanks Mike...I wish I could go back to the couple I've played over the
    years and take a second look...I don't think they were re-issues...the first
    I played would have been around 1970. Thanks for the links as well...I'll
    check them out. So these were made like an archtop but with pre-formed
    laminated tops (rather than a single piece of carved spruce or maple)? I was
    aware that the centerblock was a feedback reduction issue...B.B. King used
    to Stuff his ES-355 with socks to bring that down, until he convinced Gibson
    to take away the f-holes. IIRC, the earlier ES (125) models had a small
    single coil floating at the neck like our modern Jazz Boxes and Electrified
    Archtops. The centerblock also allowed for the mounting of a stop piece for
    the strings rather than a trapeze. Anyway, thanks for taking the time to
    correct the errors of my ways ;-) but I dunno if Onion got the answer he was
    looking for...sure hope so.

    All the best, CS
    --
    ---
    The opinions, comments, and advice offered by me, are mine alone.
    As such, they carry as much weight as a feather in a snow storm.
    Gear Page at: http://www3.sympatico.ca/cybrserf/Gear.htm


    "Mike McKernan" <mikemck333@optonline.net> wrote in message
    news:j3n6kv006en5g7ha2mj9vm7sjgn3n29r2n@4ax.com...
    > On Wed, 20 Aug 2003 07:15:14 -0400, "CyberSerf"
    > <nospam.cybrserf@sympatico.ca> wrote:
    >
    >
    > >
    > >No mention of the lack of a center block...although you'd think that

    would
    > >be a major difference.
    > >
    > >...
    > >
    > >Again, specific mention is made calling the 330 a Semi-Hollow...the Herb
    > >Ellis ES-165 was hollow as were many early 125's. Finally, the two I've
    > >personally played have had center blocks...any idea when they took it

    out?
    > >Ah well...ya learn something new everyday.

    >
    > This is one of those things that's gotten wrong more than it's gotten
    > right. I've seen other inconsistencies in the Gibson Blue Book
    > listings, so I'd check beyond that.
    >
    > The only 330 I ever played was a long time ago, in a vintage shop
    > that's no longer there (Outlaw Guitars). I wouldn't have looked
    > inside, except that the salesman pointed out that I might have
    > feedback problems with a 330.
    >
    > Here are a couple of references:
    >
    > http://www.hendrixguitars.com/Gi303.htm
    > http://home.tiscali.nl/~heteren/Guitars69-71.htm (about 2/3 down the
    > page)
    > http://www.provide.net/~cfh/gibson4.html
    >
    > The last one directly compares the 330 to the 335, since it's so easy
    > to assume they're the same body.
    >
    > I did once hear of someone who had a block added to a 330, because the
    > 330 would feedback at volume. The block in the 335/345/355 was not so
    > much structural as it was to prevent feedback. That's why the block
    > was balsa (called "chromyte" by Gibson) instead of something a little
    > more solid.
  11. Les Cargill

    Les Cargill Guest

    Mike McKernan wrote:
    >
    > On Wed, 20 Aug 2003 07:15:14 -0400, "CyberSerf"
    > <nospam.cybrserf@sympatico.ca> wrote:
    >
    > To add to my last post...
    >
    > I just did a little searching and found that there was an ES-330
    > re-issue. Maybe they did this with a center block...apparently the
    > re-issue was discontinued, so I can't verify this.


    I never know what will them guys'll do, but the difference between a 330 and
    335 *is* the center block. If they made a 330 with a center block, that's
    kind of confusing.

    --
    Les Cargill
  12. CyberSerf

    CyberSerf Guest

    Les,

    I understand what you're saying and I admit to a bit of confusion, but
    the dual humbucker on a 335 and the single coil of a 330 coupled with the
    16th fret body joint of the 330 do not constitute (IMHO) trivial
    modifications...so (again, IMHO) there are more differences between an
    ES-335 and an ES-330 than a piece of balsa down the center...I'm not sure
    about the first...I doubt I thought to look...but the second so-called
    ES-330 I played...I guess it was vintage in the 90's...did indeed have a
    center block...I had an inspection mirror down the f-hole to fix a crack in
    the upper bout. Maybe that was one in a million, but there was certainly
    more to distinguish it from a 335 than the center block!

    Respectfully, CS

    --
    ---
    The opinions, comments, and advice offered by me, are mine alone.
    As such, they carry as much weight as a feather in a snow storm.
    Gear Page at: http://www3.sympatico.ca/cybrserf/Gear.htm


    "Les Cargill" <lcargill@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message
    news:3F437ADE.18289408@worldnet.att.net...
    > Mike McKernan wrote:
    > >
    > > On Wed, 20 Aug 2003 07:15:14 -0400, "CyberSerf"
    > > <nospam.cybrserf@sympatico.ca> wrote:
    > >
    > > To add to my last post...
    > >
    > > I just did a little searching and found that there was an ES-330
    > > re-issue. Maybe they did this with a center block...apparently the
    > > re-issue was discontinued, so I can't verify this.

    >
    > I never know what will them guys'll do, but the difference between a 330

    and
    > 335 *is* the center block. If they made a 330 with a center block, that's
    > kind of confusing.
    >
    > --
    > Les Cargill
  13. Les Cargill

    Les Cargill Guest

    CyberSerf wrote:
    >
    > Les,
    >


    Serf: I am no expert at all. I am rather sure there's probably a book
    out there with all this info in it.

    > I understand what you're saying and I admit to a bit of confusion, but
    > the dual humbucker on a 335 and the single coil of a 330


    330s came with buckers. They may also have had P90s at some
    point - although I think of the Epi Casino for that,
    like the reissue series with the Lennon model from
    the '90s.

    Those original Epi P90 beasts were, erm, not all
    that great. Microphonic - a Beatles nut singer I worked
    with had one of those and it sequealed like a pig at
    low volumes. Clanky too.

    In the early '80s, seems like
    everybody had a 330 or 335, and they seemed all
    but identical except for the center block. These would
    have likely all been Norlin-era instruments.

    > coupled with the
    > 16th fret body joint of the 330 do not constitute (IMHO) trivial
    > modifications...


    Not at all.

    > so (again, IMHO) there are more differences between an
    > ES-335 and an ES-330 than a piece of balsa down the center...I'm not sure
    > about the first...I doubt I thought to look...but the second so-called
    > ES-330 I played...I guess it was vintage in the 90's...did indeed have a
    > center block...


    Huh. Weird. And it had the engraving "330" on the laminate? Like
    I say, there may have been all kinda variations on the theme.

    Then you throw in the 347 and ... eaugh.

    Seems like especially in the '60s, there was a lot
    of confusion about what was what in Gibson guitars.

    "That's a Les Paul. No, it's a Melody Maker. No, it's
    an SG. No, it's a Junior..."

    > I had an inspection mirror down the f-hole to fix a crack in
    > the upper bout. Maybe that was one in a million, but there was certainly
    > more to distinguish it from a 335 than the center block!


    Sounds like it. Something like that always makes me wonder if it
    wasn't a repair job - like somebody Frankensteined one or
    something.

    >
    > Respectfully, CS
    >
    > --
    > ---
    > The opinions, comments, and advice offered by me, are mine alone.
    > As such, they carry as much weight as a feather in a snow storm.
    > Gear Page at: http://www3.sympatico.ca/cybrserf/Gear.htm
    >
    > "Les Cargill" <lcargill@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message
    > news:3F437ADE.18289408@worldnet.att.net...
    > > Mike McKernan wrote:
    > > >
    > > > On Wed, 20 Aug 2003 07:15:14 -0400, "CyberSerf"
    > > > <nospam.cybrserf@sympatico.ca> wrote:
    > > >
    > > > To add to my last post...
    > > >
    > > > I just did a little searching and found that there was an ES-330
    > > > re-issue. Maybe they did this with a center block...apparently the
    > > > re-issue was discontinued, so I can't verify this.

    > >
    > > I never know what will them guys'll do, but the difference between a 330

    > and
    > > 335 *is* the center block. If they made a 330 with a center block, that's
    > > kind of confusing.
    > >
    > > --
    > > Les Cargill



    --
    Les Cargill
  14. "CyberSerf" <nospam.cybrserf@sympatico.ca> wrote in message news:<hHJ0b.4871$HB4.815129@news20.bellglobal.com>...
    > Thanks Mike...I wish I could go back to the couple I've played over the
    > years and take a second look...I don't think they were re-issues...the first
    > I played would have been around 1970. Thanks for the links as well...I'll
    > check them out. So these were made like an archtop but with pre-formed
    > laminated tops (rather than a single piece of carved spruce or maple)?


    Yer welcome. I honestly don't know whether the top is laminated or
    solid. If it really was meant to be a thinline jazzer, it may have
    been a solid top...anyone know for sure? Now I'm curious...

    Anyway, you never know what people might have ordered from the factory
    or had modded afterwards. We've all run across the occasional
    "impossible" guitar and scratched our heads...
  15. onions

    onions Guest

    On Wed, 20 Aug 2003 23:14:01 GMT, Les Cargill
    <lcargill@worldnet.att.net> wrote:

    the 330's started with surface mount p90's with the neck joining at
    the 16the fret -from1970 the neck joined at the 19th fret and it still
    had the P90's.

    In one of the previous posts there is a link that shows the Crest;
    what interests me is that the Crest has a bridg with a wooden foot
    like a proper archtop.
  16. Les Cargill

    Les Cargill Guest

    onions wrote:
    >
    > On Wed, 20 Aug 2003 23:14:01 GMT, Les Cargill
    > <lcargill@worldnet.att.net> wrote:
    >
    > the 330's started


    > with surface mount p90's with the neck joining at
    > the 16the fret -from1970 the neck joined at the 19th fret and it still
    > had the P90's.
    >



    > In one of the previous posts there is a link that shows the Crest;
    > what interests me is that the Crest has a bridg with a wooden foot
    > like a proper archtop.



    --
    Les Cargill
  17. Les Cargill

    Les Cargill Guest

    onions wrote:
    >
    > On Wed, 20 Aug 2003 23:14:01 GMT, Les Cargill
    > <lcargill@worldnet.att.net> wrote:
    >
    > the 330's started


    About when? Were they coincident with the Epiphone
    equivalent?

    > with surface mount p90's with the neck joining at
    > the 16the fret -from1970 the neck joined at the 19th fret and it still
    > had the P90's.
    >


    When did they go to 'buckers?

    > In one of the previous posts there is a link that shows the Crest;
    > what interests me is that the Crest has a bridg with a wooden foot
    > like a proper archtop.



    --
    Les Cargill
  18. onions

    onions Guest

    I've owned a couple of 345's but i hve never even played a 330.
    The only things I know I have read. -that's why I'm here asking
    questions ;)

    My previous post was cribbed from 'The Gibson Guitar' by I. Bishop
    published in 1977. It shows catalogue pictures of both versions of the
    330 with metal covered P90's. There is no mention of humbuckers, so
    perhaps that happened after 1977. I haven't seen one with humbuckers
    (but that doesn't really mean much!). The author states that the 330
    was also available with one pickup in 1958, the year the 330 was
    introduced. Also he mentions the 325,"introduced to replace the 330".

    The Tom Wheeler book scarcely mentions the 330 except to say the same
    things; hollow body - single coil pick-ups.

    I noticed pictures in that book of two versions of the Epiphone Al
    Caiola guitar. One is a Gibson made Custom model - the note says it
    has a 335 body and I see the wooden foot on the bridge. the other is a
    standard model - the books says with a 330 body and in the picture
    there is no foot - the bridge just goes straight into the body on its
    posts. BTW Both guitars had small humbuckers.

    So, how about Epiphone; which of their 33X shaped models have the
    centre and which ones are meant to be hollow?

    onions
    >onions wrote:
    >>
    >> On Wed, 20 Aug 2003 23:14:01 GMT, Les Cargill
    >> <lcargill@worldnet.att.net> wrote:
    >>
    >> the 330's started

    >
    >About when? Were they coincident with the Epiphone
    >equivalent?
    >
    >> with surface mount p90's with the neck joining at
    >> the 16the fret -from1970 the neck joined at the 19th fret and it still
    >> had the P90's.
    >>

    >
    >When did they go to 'buckers?
    >
    >> In one of the previous posts there is a link that shows the Crest;
    >> what interests me is that the Crest has a bridg with a wooden foot
    >> like a proper archtop.
  19. onions

    onions Guest


    >So, how about Epiphone; which of their 33X shaped models have the
    >centre and which ones are meant to be hollow?



    okay, i've found it on the Gibson site - it's the Casino - once again
    it's hollow with P90s but some subtle differences however ther it is
    with the bridge on posts
  20. Les Cargill

    Les Cargill Guest

    onions wrote:
    >
    > I've owned a couple of 345's but i hve never even played a 330.
    > The only things I know I have read. -that's why I'm here asking
    > questions ;)
    >
    > My previous post was cribbed from 'The Gibson Guitar' by I. Bishop
    > published in 1977. It shows catalogue pictures of both versions of the
    > 330 with metal covered P90's. There is no mention of humbuckers, so
    > perhaps that happened after 1977. I haven't seen one with humbuckers
    > (but that doesn't really mean much!).


    I haven't seen that many - two or three. One, maybe - this was
    twenty years ago. They were cheaper than the 335,
    if I remember right. Neck heavy - I can't imagine them being more
    desirable than a 335. Mighta been a little smaller, too.

    > The author states that the 330
    > was also available with one pickup in 1958, the year the 330 was
    > introduced. Also he mentions the 325,"introduced to replace the 330".
    >
    > The Tom Wheeler book scarcely mentions the 330 except to say the same
    > things; hollow body - single coil pick-ups.
    >
    > I noticed pictures in that book of two versions of the Epiphone Al
    > Caiola guitar. One is a Gibson made Custom model - the note says it
    > has a 335 body and I see the wooden foot on the bridge. the other is a
    > standard model - the books says with a 330 body and in the picture
    > there is no foot - the bridge just goes straight into the body on its
    > posts. BTW Both guitars had small humbuckers.
    >


    The 330s I remember had full-size 'buckers - the first Dimarzio PAF I
    ever put on a guitar came from one.

    > So, how about Epiphone; which of their 33X shaped models have the
    > centre and which ones are meant to be hollow?
    >


    Currently/in the last ten years?

    The models with which I'm familiar include:

    - The Lennon "signature" blonde Casino, intended to look like
    Lennon's refinished Casino.

    - The tobaccoburst Casino ( pre-refinished Lennon model)

    - "The Dot", which is a 335 thing with the block.

    Dunno beyond that.

    > onions
    > >onions wrote:
    > >>
    > >> On Wed, 20 Aug 2003 23:14:01 GMT, Les Cargill
    > >> <lcargill@worldnet.att.net> wrote:
    > >>
    > >> the 330's started

    > >
    > >About when? Were they coincident with the Epiphone
    > >equivalent?
    > >
    > >> with surface mount p90's with the neck joining at
    > >> the 16the fret -from1970 the neck joined at the 19th fret and it still
    > >> had the P90's.
    > >>

    > >
    > >When did they go to 'buckers?
    > >
    > >> In one of the previous posts there is a link that shows the Crest;
    > >> what interests me is that the Crest has a bridg with a wooden foot
    > >> like a proper archtop.



    --
    Les Cargill

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