Software Alternatives to the Waves L2

Discussion in 'rec.audio.pro' started by Bob Monk, Aug 26, 2003.

  1. Bob Monk

    Bob Monk Guest

    Software Alternatives to the Waves L2 VST Plugin. Is the Voxengo stuff any good and can you name anymore good limiters.

    Cheers.
  2. xy

    xy Guest

    excellent work! definitely a "pro" sound. very "heavy". i think you
    have the signal chain idea exactly right for this style of music,
    because i definitely have heard this "sound" on big name heavy rock
    artists.

    seldom does my windows media player spit out such quality.
  3. xy

    xy Guest

    but why would an expensive converter "clip" better than a cheap one?
  4. >seldom does my windows media player spit out such quality.

    wow, thanks for the compliments. its especially pleasing because as you can
    tell by my handle, the example on the website is a track by my band.

    I'm doing more tests that will compare four masters: the first three will
    show how it sounds when you overdrive the A/Ds of the Ramsa 96, the Lynx II,
    and the RME 8 Di Pro. The fourth will be a mix that was kept in the DAW and
    just pushed to loudness simply with a peak limiting plugin, the L2. Check out
    www.blacklinerock.com/gearslutztests in a few days, or www.blacklinerock.com to
    hear the Ramsa being overdriven now.
    Steve
  5. Blind Joni

    Blind Joni Guest

    >For an example, take a listen to the song at www.blacklinerock.com called
    >RUN.
    >I ran it off the mixer to an SSL compressor then to a Focusrite Red 3 both
    >doing a tiny bit of compression, then to the Ramsa A/D where I moderately
    >clipped it.


    Any experience with a Cranesong HEDD converter?


    John A. Chiara
    SOS Recording Studio
    Live Sound Inc.
    Albany, NY
    www.sosrecording.net
    518-449-1637
  6. "Some top mastering engineers I've seen use NO peak limiting at all,
    they just overdrive the A/D"

    You've got to be shitting me.
  7. >You've got to be shitting me.

    no he's not. Its done all the time. But keep in mind that we're not talking
    about BLACKFACE ADAT converters here, we're talking about Prism, Lavry, etc.
  8. Look into the products at db-audioware.com and quantum-fx.com (the
    quantum-fx plugins are the latest offerings).

    Personally, I've found these plugins very transparent, if not quite as
    slickly packaged as the Waves stuff. The developer has also produced
    software for broadcast applications.

    I would suggest getting the quantum-fx demo, try hitting the limiter as hard
    as you would in normal use and see if you like what you hear.

    The Voxengo plugins look interesting.

    Ryan
  9. Scott Dorsey

    Scott Dorsey Guest

    Your Add Here! <bluemt@earthlink.net> wrote:
    >"Some top mastering engineers I've seen use NO peak limiting at all,
    >they just overdrive the A/D"
    >
    >You've got to be shitting me.


    He's not.
    The result sounds like crap, but it's really loud.
    And sadly that is what the customer is demanding these days.
    --scott
    --
    "C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."
  10. Scott Dorsey

    Scott Dorsey Guest

    In article <20030826233627.08462.00000712@mb-m27.aol.com>,
    LS1productions <ls1productions@aol.com> wrote:
    >>You've got to be shitting me.

    >
    >no he's not. Its done all the time. But keep in mind that we're not talking
    >about BLACKFACE ADAT converters here, we're talking about Prism, Lavry, etc.


    The Prism (at least my AD-124) sounds REALLY vile when it goes into clipping
    on peaks. Much worse than most of the cheaper stuff.
    --scott
    --
    "C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."
  11. My Ramsa sounds fine when clipped. I'm checking out a few more A/Ds to
    compare. I've also clipped the converters in the L2 and had great results..
    the less of the dsp you have to use with that thing, the better...
    Steve
  12. Interesting. I guess these converters are designed in such a way that
    overdriving was taken into consideration and compensated for. I wonder
    if it's the analog circuitry around the converter that results in this
    pleasing sound.

    ls1productions@aol.com (LS1productions) wrote in message news:<20030826233627.08462.00000712@mb-m27.aol.com>...
    > >You've got to be shitting me.

    >
    > no he's not. Its done all the time. But keep in mind that we're not talking
    > about BLACKFACE ADAT converters here, we're talking about Prism, Lavry, etc.
  13. Scott Dorsey

    Scott Dorsey Guest

    Your Add Here! <bluemt@earthlink.net> wrote:
    >Interesting. I guess these converters are designed in such a way that
    >overdriving was taken into consideration and compensated for. I wonder
    >if it's the analog circuitry around the converter that results in this
    >pleasing sound.


    It's not pleasing, it's just loud.

    If the Prism sounded good when it was overloaded, Prism wouldn't be selling
    a little limiter made with two back-to-back zeners to prevent overloads.

    If zener clipping sounds better than the converter overload, the converter
    overload is be pretty nasty.
    --scott
    --
    "C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."
  14. >I've also clipped the converters in the L2 and had great results..
    >the less of the dsp you have to use with that thing, the better...


    let me add that when I say "clip" I don't mean I drive the thing into massive
    crackly digital distortion, I just push it till the kick and snare light up the
    red a bit, followed by a light boost with an peak limiter in the DAW to add an
    extra db and a half or so... sounds a million times better then going real
    light to the A/D and doing a WHOLE lot of limiting with an L2 or limiter
    equivilant. Its funny how some of the presets on those plugins are like +6
    boost... man, if you need to get that much additional gain on your mix, then I
    feel bad because the more work the peak limiter does, the worse things are
    going to sound PERIOD. But talk is cheap, so I'll have examples of this up on
    my website shortly. Steve
  15. ScotFraser

    ScotFraser Guest

    << let me add that when I say "clip" I don't mean I drive the thing into
    massive
    crackly digital distortion, I just push it till the kick and snare light up the
    red a bit, >>

    Is this truly clipping the AD or have they implemented something non-linear in
    the last few db of range in the analog path of the Ramsa? I've certainly seen
    lots of red lights in meters that didn't actually correspond to a truly clipped
    waveform, & I've also heard really ugly results when the ADC was really
    clipping, & the waveform had the look of a mesa to show what was clearly
    audible.


    Scott Fraser
  16. >Is this truly clipping the AD or have they implemented something non-linear
    >in
    >the last few db of range in the analog path of the Ramsa?


    I don't really know, but its not just the ramsa. The L2, Lavrys, and a few
    others handle clipping in a decent way. I'm testing more out today and
    tomorrow, I'll also get the L2 in here (hardware unit for A/D).
    Steve
  17. > He's not.
    > The result sounds like crap, but it's really loud.
    > And sadly that is what the customer is demanding these days.


    Thant's what I figured.
  18. Lynn

    Lynn Guest

    "Ryan Mitchley" <rmitchle@removethis.worldonline.co.za> wrote in message
    news:3f4c73b7$0$3394$a32e20b9@news.nntpservers.com...
    > Look into the products at db-audioware.com and quantum-fx.com (the
    > quantum-fx plugins are the latest offerings).
    >
    > Personally, I've found these plugins very transparent, if not quite as
    > slickly packaged as the Waves stuff. The developer has also produced
    > software for broadcast applications.


    I've used the db-audioware plugins for years. I think they're great! I've
    since tried the waves ones and found them too processor hungry for my old
    pc. They didn't sound as good either!

    Lynn
    --
    Listen to my music...
    http://www.soundclick.com/lynn
    http://www.soundclick.com/chaslyn
    http://www.soundclick.com/dickosboogieband
    http://www.soundclick.com/johnmckeon



    ---
    Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
    Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
    Version: 6.0.512 / Virus Database: 309 - Release Date: 19/08/03
  19. In article <biierv$6v9$1@panix2.panix.com>, kludge@panix.com (Scott
    Dorsey) wrote:

    > Your Add Here! <bluemt@earthlink.net> wrote:
    > >"Some top mastering engineers I've seen use NO peak limiting at all,
    > >they just overdrive the A/D"
    > >
    > >You've got to be shitting me.

    >
    > He's not.
    > The result sounds like crap, but it's really loud.
    > And sadly that is what the customer is demanding these days.
    > --scott


    Sometimes not an A/D clip, but digitally clipping some processor or the
    ouput of a DAW. Clipping adds level, and that seems all the rage, sound
    quality be damned. It's sad but true. You can only squeeze so much into
    a finite 16 bit space. Still, I think even mastering engineers who
    intentionally clip do it in conjunction with limiting, not relying on
    clipping for ALL their subjective level gains.

    --
    Jay Frigoletto
    Mastersuite
    Los Angeles
    promastering.com
  20. pH

    pH Guest

    On 26 Aug 2003 21:26:39 GMT, blacklinemusic@aol.com (BlacklineMusic) wrote:

    >Try to use as little software peak limiting as possible if you want loud
    >masters. Rather then investing on software limiters, invest in good A/D. Much
    >of the "loudness" you hear on commercial CDs is acheived by running gear hot
    >and then finally clipping the A/D section of a good converter set, like Prism
    >or Db Technologies. I use the Ramsa 96ks and I drive them hard and it sounds
    >great, it leaves your transients in tact without smearing and flattening the
    >overall sound like pushing the L2 does. Then I'll use the Timeworks mastering
    >limiter and bring the threshold to like -2, thats all it needs. Some top
    >mastering engineers I've seen use NO peak limiting at all, they just overdrive
    >the A/D.


    Just wanted to add a (belated) plug for the Timeworks stuff. I use
    the Creamware Pulsar version of their compressors, reverb... the whole
    enchilada, and I've been *thoroughly* pleased with all of 'em (and their
    Vintage EQ stands second to none... well, none that I've experienced).

    Plus,

    >For an example, take a listen to the song at www.blacklinerock.com called RUN.


    *that* was frickin' awesome, and I mean... I'd run out of superlatives before
    I could say enough about it. Rarely have I heard such a well crafted tune,
    these days. Guitar-head that I am... well, a piece like that woulda been
    cryin' for a fitting solo, but... I must say, I wasn't left wanting. Purely
    excellent.

    Jeff

    http://www.jefftturner.com

Share This Page