The Thread About Nothing - Big Words Only

Discussion in 'Chit Chat' started by voice of god, Mar 27, 2003.

  1. ZelRiptha

    ZelRiptha Thnow White but I drifted Staff Member Super Mod

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    The presentation and postulation of the above speculation involving partitioning of individual perception into increasing and dynamic diurnal graduations is an interesting and compelling logical contrivance deriving to explain the conceited but futile desire of individual homo sapiens to mitigate their indefatigable senescence, which often precipitates bizarre behavioral manifestations indicative of the perverse desperation with which selfsame organisms persist in their denial of such inevitable and actually desirable natural vital progressions.

    Consider if you will the ubiquitous and extensive dispersion of electronic communications concerned primarily with expansion, functionality, and dimension of various mammary and copulatory organs which seem to be greeted enthusiastically and with approving fervor by the indiscriminate and apparently promiscuous global population at large. One's onset of depression at the thought is immediate, undeniable, and tragically foreordained.

    However, consideration of the above said speculation is of interest to our earlier discussion of the undeniable flaw of perspective, which in the exampled situation actually serves in an advantageous manner. This surprising result is of philosophical and sociological interest to our discussion at hand, and might serve as an initial scenario from which we might launch into further vigorous and fulfilling discourse. The prospect excites and stimulates one in a provocative fashion, prompting many a manifold succus to secrete. ;)
    Last edited: Jul 16, 2003
  2. deejaytwist

    deejaytwist New Member

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    LOL, Zelriptha's one deep, deep person! :) You must be a writer!
  3. Felida

    Felida Sex Kitten

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    *looks bamboozled for a moment* Blinks and re reads Zels discourse.

    Naw .. he is just saying (I think) that it is useless to deny the ageing process .. and that along the way we all hit mid life crisis .. so best to lie back and accept it !
  4. shrxfn

    shrxfn New Member

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    In short he is talking about porn. Even the most literate among us cannot escape its pervasive effect on the dissemination of information engine known as the Internet.
  5. Felida

    Felida Sex Kitten

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    .. Only the penultimate paragraph veritably administers attention to the leitmotiv pornography, undeniably imparting gargantuan and multifarious momentousness to the salience of the subject.

    Conversely and contrariwise the inaugural paragraph is primarily implicatious in its concupiscence to convey the desperation perceived and apprehended by certain idiosyncratic individuals towards the maturation process.

    The masterful summation in the concluding paragraph serves to coalesce the preceding quotation The older I get, the older old iswith the oncoming desperation and realisation that however one manages to deceive or ague away the undeniable fact i.e. homo sapiens mitigate their indefatigable senescence, the electonic communication system known as the internet serves to promulgate the advent of a mountain of pornography and that in turn serves to stimulate a carnality that the aforesaid idividuals were in an apprehension of suffering deprivation of the former desire due to advancing senility and diminishing attractiveness.

    .. err .. I think .. that was it ..

    in a nutshell "middle age crisis in denial"
  6. ZelRiptha

    ZelRiptha Thnow White but I drifted Staff Member Super Mod

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    *inclines deferentially toward the clearly enlightened, contemplative, and perspicacious gentlewoman*


    While it may be granted that a certain sapidity of turpitude infiltrated and penetrated the aforementioned discussion, same said was clearly not intended or desired to be its principal concentration or even permitted to garner any particular eminence or sanguinity in the unfolding exposition, but rather an indication or causa par exemplar. It generates in me substantial gratification to audit Felida's edifying summation in addition to invoking a yearning to explicate further my earlier postulation. (Felida: Deem it not that I failed in observance of your conspicuous yet subtle use of the provocative connotation you imparted by expressing my desire for comprehension in a frankly corporeal or even carnal manner - concupiscense! - I hesistate to make lengthy or reveletory response in so public a forum, but am obliged to make it known to you that I would find such discourse amply, if not profoundly, intriguing and stimulating, should you be so fortuitously inclined.)

    While the most generous and charitable commendation dispensed in the latest paragraph is most kindhearted, the ensuing implication of causality must be clarified with some caution. While earnest and forthright a suggestion, I feel compelled to mention that a motivating factor in my discourse was, to a much broader aspect than perhaps emerged clearly from my dissertation, more importantly derived from an emphasis on the sophisticated and resolute dissemination of materials designed to make flaccid cranial contents even more pliable in their contemplation and consideration of purchasing and acquiring assorted bits of ineffectual and otiose merchandise having to do with promulgating a mendacious, and further, counterfeit, sense of enhanced sexual self image or libido having nothing to do with anything of genuine value or esteem, indeed, which seem to be pifflingly more than modern day snake oil; than from an indiscriminate consumption of ubiquitous and varied electronic portrayals of various acts of copulation, masturbation, sadomasochism, coprophilia, urination, bestiality, et cetera. This also begs the question of what one is to do with an involuntary, insatiable, inconvenient, and persistent excitation of erectile tissue that finds no equanimity after ejaculation nor pleasure in protracted arousal, and which while perhaps being useful for running up a pennant, is scarcely more than an annoyance after such supplementary actions as caused the desire to ingest the tablet in question initially are discharged and fulfilled.

    Since it seems invariably true that few auditors endure more than two of my ponderously precise, yet lighthearted paragraphs, I submit to you Felida, that your sanguine and incisive commentary lends my ruminations to wander astray toward languid thoughts of ardent and temporally protracted osculation, and though doing so publically might betray the admitted and perhaps appropriate privacy of such matters, that you might not find such offensive or, fortuitously for myself, undesirable. Thus my desideration lies bare and anticipative before you. I entreat for your benevolence.
    Last edited: Jul 23, 2003
  7. Felida

    Felida Sex Kitten

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    *Affably inclining her head and rejoinding in kind*

    It was never intended that the precis summation of your unparalleled dissertation, was to be anything other than the meanest attempt to pare down and refine the utterances thus issued in the preceding and aforementioned dissemination of the aforegoing desideration of the discussion at hand !

    In defence of the negativity of the issuance that perchance may have been gleaned by over arduous, nay, over industrious perusal of same subject in precis, aperçu, or sylloge - in mitigation may I express abject sorrow that such same digest could have aroused sentiments interpreted reprehensibley, but mistakenly of those self same issuances to be have been seen to be ajudged in a somewhat personal modus. Never was that implication to be perceived !

    One has burning sympathy for the perceptions mooted and broached within the dissertation, as the advent of maturation and self doubts of our own pulchritudinous, creep inexorably and relentlessly upon us all !

    As to the osculatory hints contained within your concluding and terminal paragraph, rest assured, that should such a compassionate, and benevolent thought be directed this way, then it would indeed be returned in the spirit in which it was offered
  8. J_iceman

    J_iceman Grand KING Master Iceman

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    tooo......many..........words........must............open .........brain
    to..........release..............pressure.........aaaaaahh
    feels MUCH better, ////so you were saying???
  9. ZelRiptha

    ZelRiptha Thnow White but I drifted Staff Member Super Mod

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    Felida:
    It is with nontrivial affection that I implore you not to experience or apprehend any remorse over your quaint use of the non-pejorative but amply surprising and mildly incendiary nomination abovementioned. It was my quite hearty and jocose appreciation of the same that directed me to impart such luminescent favor to the antiphonal converse. Though seemingly and purportedly unintentional, I crave and garner carefully any circumstantial provenance that might lend favor to the speculation that the inverse may contain or consist of some significant particles of verity. (One may desiderate!)

    As to the presence of your own immoderate, unfettered, and incontrovertable pulchritude there is no incertitude whatsoever on my part, or for that matter, from any conscious, sighted, animate individual in existence. And perhaps those qualifying requirements could be ablated, such is the magnitude and ferocity of your ardent and voluptuous beauteousness. Ah, but I linger tellingly upon a favored subject. What a revelatory dalliance! Caution, id!

    It offers me no end of delectation and jocundity to hear that your consideration of that about which we earlier dialogued contains not but an intimation of favor, but such a beatific and surprising austerity of presentation as I could scarcely have aspired to imagine. My gratitude is infinite!
  10. Felida

    Felida Sex Kitten

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    Zel: I am indebted to your genorousity of spirit, in the preceding discourse, however, I revert to the actual subject of the topic, the state of "Nothing"


    "One thing I know and that is, that I know nothing. "
    Socrates

    The following extract has in a sense satisfactorily answered many of my own questions regarding the existence of nothing:

    Why Does the Universe Exist?
    A Journey Beyond Nothing

    Gerhard Staguhn once wrote, "Whenever man tries to probe into the universe's dimension of time, he will finally be confronted with eternity. Where he tries to understand the dimension of space, he will be finally confronted with infinity." That has become true for science, and for myself, but no one, myself included, ever believed infinity or eternity could be so fathomable.

    One could spend an entire lifetime imagining what is possible, visualizing strange science fiction universes or mystical fairy tales, without ever making a dent in the infinity of what is possible. And yet with a single word, everything, or universe, we can capture all that exists throughout eternity, if that is simply what we mean when using the word.

    We take for granted our powers of the mind. We wield ideas that are magical. The word everything will stretch to any length, and can become infinite, if necessary. It can even represent nothing, when said to mean, everything that does not exist. But such meanings are also where our powers are limited, as they are given meaning and structure. A word that means everything is an ultimate boundary. Who can make a word mean more than everything. Even infinity requires definitive form to be.

    But what is everything? How infinite is the greater Universe? What all does exist? I don't care much if someone is a physicist or a bus driver, I still want to discuss most what other people believe to be fundamentally true. What is your ALL shaped like? Is there more out there, other dimensions, a spiritual domain, beyond this world. Do you see it as an incomprehensible infinitude, or does existence include only the Earth and the heavenly stars above, perhaps a spatially curved universe bent by gravity into a closed circle? Such things do not scare me anymore.

    The initial questions are, how, when, and why did existence itself begin? What created being? But then we are led to wonder, can being itself even have a beginning? If so, then existence somehow arose from an absolute nothing. That is a sort of logical inevitability. Take away everything and you have nothing. This is why I say nothing is the second most powerful word in the universe because it represents the ultimate boundary opposite to everything. Everything is the upper limit and nothing is the lower limit. It is not possible to imagine less than nothing, that is, if we say nothing and mean no existence at all. But how could existence begin from that?

    Follow time backward toward nothingness and leave totally everything behind, traveling to the beginning of time and space, all being, all thought. If you lean toward science, travel to a place before the birth of spacetime at the Big Bang, to the edge of any false vacuum or every existent condition from which the Big Bang might have arose from. If you are more religious or spiritual, travel through whatever you conceive the ALL to be until you've journeyed to the very beginning of all being. Just don't be afraid. This is simple stuff. We say the word nothing everyday. Nothing is nothing to be afraid of.

    Imagine that we stand at the very edge where existence begins, as if we've walked out to the edge of a cliff, and now try to imagine beyond the precipice upon which we stand. Imagine the abyss of nothingness that would have been prior to existence, and try to understand its nature. Reach out with your hand to touch it. In words try to define what is there. If you are able to describe something, or imagine something, or even feel something, realize you are not quite at the edge. You are still thinking or feeling something. You have to go further than that. So take the last step to the outer edge of all being and peer beyond into nothing at all.

    Well, you are still here reading these words. You didn't disappear. You didn't get sucked into the void. But you weren't able to imagine nothingness either, were you. If you did you didn't. We cannot imagine the abyss because there is nothing to imagine. There are many different ways of describing absolutely everything. We can say the universe, reality, the whole, the absolute, the whole shebang, the ALL, all being, or all existence. But there is no word to describe the nothing out there in the abyss, because that nothing doesn't exist. There is no such thing as nothing.

    One Greek philosopher, Titus Lucretius, presented this argument in a more practical physical way. From our position within space, he recognized that space can never end, for what would happen, Lucretius asked, if we throw a dart at the outer edge. "Wherever you may place the ultimate limit of things, I will ask you: 'Well then, what does happen to the dart?' The universe has nothing outside to limit it", wrote Lucretius, recognizing then what we still believe today scientifically, that space or the universe cannot simply end, beyond which there is nothing.

    There is no place where the universe is not. The universe is everywhere we go and everywhere we see. Yet we still imagine in a vague way an alternative, as if the universe could stop existing, as if we ourselves might not exist. We do so only from making a mistake. We combine together two very different concepts, one is the concept of having no form or substance, or what is correctly referred to as Nothing. A very different and much more radical concept is Non-existence. The problem is that we often confuse these two words, and that confusion is why we don't understand why we exist.

    When the dictionary defines nothing as something that does not exist, it is reasonably obvious that the syntax of the phrase, simply the reference to something which does not exist as a something, makes no real sense. In fact simply using a word in any attempt to mean non-existence creates a sort of unsolvable riddle. How can we refer to a state of non-existence when there is no such state, and no such form.

    A word cannot represent a form that isn't a form, a thing that isn't a thing, or an idea which doesn't have any reality or meaning. And so any attempt to define a non-existence using any meaningful idea or thought, the meaning that otherwise defines all language, and our reality, is pre-destined to fail.

    Even the attempt to define non-existence as the negation of being fails. It is true that the words negation and being each have real syntactic meanings, but if placed together they form a radical contradiction in terms, since they attempt to express with meaning a non something which cannot have meaning at all, for it is being that gives meaning.

    At the heart of the matter is that total nothingness, isn't real. Non-existence by its own definition cannot be. That is a very ponderous statement, but it is true. The most simple of logic, and the deepest intuition, both lead to the same principle. The nothingness that we normally assume to be a part of reality, isn't.

    So our earlier time line into the past to search for the beginning of existence can never reach any point of origin. There is no such precipice as the one imagined. If we look into the past we might find a point where our space-time begins from something, perhaps there may be a God at the beginning, or perhaps this world begins from some fragile state of oneness that explodes outward into many things, or perhaps both, but any attempt to find an ultimate beginning from nothing is doomed to fail for there cannot be a beginning to existence.

    The strange exhilarating paradox visible here can be thought about for a long time, and after every avenue is explored and every escape route is attempted without success, it becomes apparent that the term non-existence is a conceptual mistake. As a result we wonder why we exist instead of nothing at all, because our thoughts default to a vague understanding of nothing and non-existence, and we fail to recognize that a universe has to exist, for nothing at all is not really an alternative, because non-existence cannot be.

    this has to be continued .. as too wordy !
  11. Felida

    Felida Sex Kitten

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    part 2 ... continuing...

    Is nothing ever real? When we say there is nothing in the refrigerator, there is a space within which no objects exist. There is space, and space certainly exists, and thus it is a thing. But space by itself is singular. Space without anything else within it is a fundamental kind of oneness because it is one thingness. And that oneness is all there is to a real nothing. When we say there is nothing here or over there, what we really are identifying is that here in time there is only one thing, that which is usually space. That oneness seems to us to be a nothing, but only from our constant living in a world of many things. We aren't accustomed to looking at any part of the world when it is being oneness.

    At best, what is genuinely meant by nothing is something not plural. The only true meaning of nothingness is existence in singular form, but obviously if we define nothing as oneness this fully destroys how we are accustomed to using and meaning the word. So although there is a real nothing that exists and is real, the word nothing is spoiled by our assumptions and does not do itself justice, to say the least.

    John Archibald Wheeler, an American physicist at Princeton University, has been saying for many years a most beautiful quote, "To my mind there must be at the bottom of it all not an utterly simple equation but an utterly simple idea, and to me that idea when we finally discover it will be so compelling, so inevitable, so beautiful, that we will all say to each other, oh how could it have been otherwise.

    This is one of my favorite quotes, and I find it applies here to this simple idea. It is a very old discovery, realized over two thousand years ago by a man named Parmenides. Parmenides taught this principle to his friend and student Zeno, and it is very possible that he taught it to a young Socrates, who was only about twenty years old when he first met Parmenides.

    There has never been a non-existence in the past, as there would be no quality to sustain a non something in time, and thus non-existence could not be even for an infinitely small moment. Nor is it possible that all existence ends in the future, because, as simple as it can be said, being has no alternative. I believe this is fundamentally why we exist. The existence of a universe is not unlikely as it sometimes seems to us. The most fundamental aspect of nature, the foundation of reality, is the basic principle that existence is inevitable.

    The principle that Non-existence cannot be, and therefore existence has always been isn't a formula, or an equation, or a first cause. It doesn't create the universe. It doesn't even relate to cause and effect. It is simply a mental recognition about nature, one which is enlightening as it dissolves our seemingly innate expectations that the universe somehow began in the past. Suddenly in knowing this, the notion disappears that there is some alternative to a universe being here.

    Copyright © 1996-98 by Devin Harris
    Last edited: Jul 25, 2003
  12. Si

    Si Super Moderator Staff Member Super Mod

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    *bows to Fel and Zel's vernacular pugnacity*

    :bow:
  13. wolleamstart

    wolleamstart New Member

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    Does Religion offer an answer to these questions? I believe it does not!
  14. m3mbran3

    m3mbran3 New Member

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    anti-dis-establishmentarianism
  15. ZelRiptha

    ZelRiptha Thnow White but I drifted Staff Member Super Mod

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    The masses beg you not to actuate from me a verbal ejaculation on said pertinent topic, wolleamstart, though I find myself wholeheartedly in concordance of cerebration and intellection with you. Indeed.
  16. buddha

    buddha New Member

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    nothing

    looks like some of us have too much of the concept called time

    although this is all relative and leads nowhere (very close to somewhere) the net (or gross) result is the same (but different) - nothing!
  17. surfer2124

    surfer2124 New Member

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    There is no place in the world that nothing exsists. No matter where you go there will always be something
  18. jaggededge62

    jaggededge62 New Member

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    Ok we herre arre juss simple country folks...use smallers wording...lol or we can try to "indulge in the English vernacular" lol
  19. ZelRiptha

    ZelRiptha Thnow White but I drifted Staff Member Super Mod

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    It is with lugubrious reminiscence and dolorous and lachrymose entreaties to the indifferent, unheeding, and probably nonexistent divinities that I commemorate the much cherished and uncircumscribable beneficence of my beloved former colloquists, VoG and Felida. I sing a sorrowful paean to their hopefully temporary remotion. Perhaps some compassionate passerby might make note of my disarray and find a spot of pity for my deplorable state and make expression of such empathy by conjoining in conversation of an appropriately circumlocutory and sympathetic nature. One can only express one's desideration...
  20. ZelRiptha

    ZelRiptha Thnow White but I drifted Staff Member Super Mod

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    My moribundity becomes protracted... alas. :damn:

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