Tone of rewired 52 Telecaster RI

Discussion in 'rec.music.guitar' started by Keith Morgan, Aug 14, 2003.

  1. Keith Morgan

    Keith Morgan Guest

    I would like to rewire my 52tele RI to the modern circuit and get the
    ability to play both pickups at once, but I would like to make sure
    that the tone of the guitar won't change when using either pickup
    separately. Does anyone definitely know that the tone will or won't
    change from the rewiring? Thanks.

    Keith Morgan
  2. PCollen

    PCollen Guest

    kmorgan@inter-tax.com (Keith Morgan) wrote in message news:<824b743c.0308140254.37635817@posting.google.com>...
    > I would like to rewire my 52tele RI to the modern circuit and get the
    > ability to play both pickups at once, but I would like to make sure
    > that the tone of the guitar won't change when using either pickup
    > separately. Does anyone definitely know that the tone will or won't
    > change from the rewiring? Thanks.
    >
    > Keith Morgan


    The tone will ALWAYS change with different pickups, or pickup
    combinations, selected due to the position of the pickup(s) selected.
    With the modern telecaster wiring, you will not get that muffled,
    muted neck pickup tone when the neck pickup alone is selected and will
    be able to vary the neck pickup tone, as well as the bridge and the
    combination pickup selection tone, with the tone control.
  3. litepipe

    litepipe Guest

    "PCollen" <pcollen@cfl.rr.com> wrote in message
    news:7c061413.0308140613.5eb18be6@posting.google.com...
    > kmorgan@inter-tax.com (Keith Morgan) wrote in message

    news:<824b743c.0308140254.37635817@posting.google.com>...
    > The tone will ALWAYS change with different pickups, or pickup
    > combinations, selected due to the position of the pickup(s) selected.
    > With the modern telecaster wiring, you will not get that muffled,
    > muted neck pickup tone when the neck pickup alone is selected and will
    > be able to vary the neck pickup tone, as well as the bridge and the
    > combination pickup selection tone, with the tone control.


    The tone of the bridge, middle position sounds the same though. Just the
    neck position changes. I changed mine years ago.

    --litepipe
  4. miker

    miker Guest

    > > I would like to rewire my 52tele RI to the modern circuit and get the
    > > ability to play both pickups at once, but I would like to make sure
    > > that the tone of the guitar won't change when using either pickup
    > > separately. Does anyone definitely know that the tone will or won't
    > > change from the rewiring? Thanks.

    >
    > The tone will ALWAYS change with different pickups, or pickup
    > combinations, selected due to the position of the pickup(s) selected.


    He's asking about the pickups individually changing because of something in
    the wiring. I would think they would sound just like they originally did, go
    for it.
  5. > kmorgan@inter-tax.com (Keith Morgan) wrote in message news:<824b743c.0308140254.37635817@posting.google.com>...

    > With the modern telecaster wiring, you will not get that muffled,
    > muted neck pickup tone when the neck pickup alone is selected and will
    > be able to vary the neck pickup tone, as well as the bridge and the
    > combination pickup selection tone, with the tone control.


    This is totally untrue, and evidence that the submitter has never done
    it nor rewired Tele's, nor even played one wired the old way. I
    played an orig '52 for many years, and later rewired it to post-53
    ("modern") scheme, which is a very minor & reverseable change. The
    only difference is that you will no longer have the deep rhythm
    position (and its large cap), which many find useless, and of course
    will then have both p/u's with the switch in midposition. As you as
    an owner already know, you have the front (neck) p/u alone selected in
    the midposition with the original scheme. However, many of the early
    issues did not have both pickups wound with the same polarity, so you
    may occasionally have an out-of-phase sound with rewiring for both
    p/u's unless you alter one's polarity. FWIW I eventually returned
    mine to the early wiring, as I found I almost never used both p/u's
    and didn't like having to throw the switch so far during my playing.
    BTW it is a simple matter to stick the switch btw positions to have
    both pu's with original wiring, once you get the hang of doing it. I
    often used my little finger on one control. third finger on the other,
    and could work everything while playing this way, by using the early
    wiring. This is how many of us made this axe talk. YMMV. The '52
    (or any pre-'54) Tele is a crude, difficult, unforgiving, very
    demanding axe that is not particularly well-made and that takes many
    years, iron fingers and some masochism to master, so there is no hurry
    to change anything, and little to lose or gain either way. Do
    whatever makes you happy with it. :)
  6. Mondoslug1

    Mondoslug1 Guest

    > so there is no hurry
    >to change anything, and little to lose or gain either way. Do
    >whatever makes you happy with it.


    Change the wiring, it'll be fine & you'll actually be able to use the pickup.



    My tunes at:
    http://www.soundclick.com/bands/5/andymostmusic.htm
  7. cooper

    cooper Guest

    I rewired mine myself.It's an easy fix.
    My pickups were very microphonic and I
    replaced them with a set of Texas Specials.
    The thang twangs-n-screams.
    Mine is a '83.
    Kept the original bridge saddles.
    My tech said he couldn't get it much better.
    I play through a Mark II c+ 100watt 4-12 BS-EV.
    The last rig I ever had to buy........

    coop

    "Keith Morgan" <kmorgan@inter-tax.com> wrote in message
    news:824b743c.0308140254.37635817@posting.google.com...
    > I would like to rewire my 52tele RI to the modern circuit and get the
    > ability to play both pickups at once, but I would like to make sure
    > that the tone of the guitar won't change when using either pickup
    > separately. Does anyone definitely know that the tone will or won't
    > change from the rewiring? Thanks.
    >
    > Keith Morgan
  8. Zorro_2K

    Zorro_2K Guest

    "litepipe" <l_itepipe@adelphia.net> wrote in message
    news:kHO_a.1801$Nc.1046223@news1.news.adelphia.net...
    >
    > "PCollen" <pcollen@cfl.rr.com> wrote in message
    > news:7c061413.0308140613.5eb18be6@posting.google.com...
    > > kmorgan@inter-tax.com (Keith Morgan) wrote in message

    > news:<824b743c.0308140254.37635817@posting.google.com>...
    > > The tone will ALWAYS change with different pickups, or pickup
    > > combinations, selected due to the position of the pickup(s) selected.
    > > With the modern telecaster wiring, you will not get that muffled,
    > > muted neck pickup tone when the neck pickup alone is selected and will
    > > be able to vary the neck pickup tone, as well as the bridge and the
    > > combination pickup selection tone, with the tone control.

    >
    > The tone of the bridge, middle position sounds the same though. Just the
    > neck position changes. I changed mine years ago.
    >
    > --litepipe
    >


    The Vintage RI Tele switching does not allow the neck/bridge pickup
    combination. You get (#3) neck w/no tone control and a rather muffled tone
    due to the 0.1uf cap across it , (# 2) neck w/tone control and (#1) bridge
    w/tone control. The tone control cap is 0.05uf.

    With 'modern' (American Standard) wiring, the tone control is active in all
    three pickup selector positions which are (#3) neck , (#2) neck/bridge, and
    (#1) bridge , and uses a 0.022 uf tone capacitor. The RI's 0.1 uf cap across
    the neck pickup is gone. Considering this, wiring a RI Tele to 'modern'
    specs does, in fact alter the tone of the pickups in all positions.
  9. Zorro_2K

    Zorro_2K Guest

    "miker" <miker4nospamok@mindnospamokspring.com> wrote in message
    news:bhgdt7$edj$1@slb6.atl.mindspring.net...
    > > > I would like to rewire my 52tele RI to the modern circuit and get the
    > > > ability to play both pickups at once, but I would like to make sure
    > > > that the tone of the guitar won't change when using either pickup
    > > > separately. Does anyone definitely know that the tone will or won't
    > > > change from the rewiring? Thanks.

    > >
    > > The tone will ALWAYS change with different pickups, or pickup
    > > combinations, selected due to the position of the pickup(s) selected.

    >
    > He's asking about the pickups individually changing because of something

    in
    > the wiring. I would think they would sound just like they originally did,

    go
    > for it.



    Considering the tone of the pickups 'in a vacuum', without considering the
    associated electronics, is a rather ridiculous consideration, don't you
    think ?
  10. Zorro_2K

    Zorro_2K Guest

    <lbrty4us@aol.com> wrote in message
    news:205ef942.0308141125.4650efec@posting.google.com...
    > > kmorgan@inter-tax.com (Keith Morgan) wrote in message

    news:<824b743c.0308140254.37635817@posting.google.com>...
    >
    > > With the modern telecaster wiring, you will not get that muffled,
    > > muted neck pickup tone when the neck pickup alone is selected and will
    > > be able to vary the neck pickup tone, as well as the bridge and the
    > > combination pickup selection tone, with the tone control.

    >
    > This is totally untrue, and evidence that the submitter has never done
    > it nor rewired Tele's, nor even played one wired the old way. I
    > played an orig '52 for many years, and later rewired it to post-53
    > ("modern") scheme, which is a very minor & reverseable change.


    "Modern" is understood to mean American Standard wiring, not simply
    "post-53".


    The
    > only difference is that you will no longer have the deep rhythm
    > position (and its large cap), which many find useless, and of course
    > will then have both p/u's with the switch in midposition.



    You forgot replacing the 0.05uf tone cap with a 0.022 uf cap.

    As you as
    > an owner already know, you have the front (neck) p/u alone selected in
    > the midposition with the original scheme. However, many of the early
    > issues did not have both pickups wound with the same polarity, so you
    > may occasionally have an out-of-phase sound with rewiring for both
    > p/u's unless you alter one's polarity.


    Or you may or, in all likelyhood, may not. There is always the remote
    possibility that the factory wired the pickups out of phase, as well. Let's
    not digress to unlikely deviations.



    FWIW I eventually returned
    > mine to the early wiring, as I found I almost never used both p/u's
    > and didn't like having to throw the switch so far during my playing.
    > BTW it is a simple matter to stick the switch btw positions to have
    > both pu's with original wiring, once you get the hang of doing it. I
    > often used my little finger on one control. third finger on the other,
    > and could work everything while playing this way, by using the early
    > wiring. This is how many of us made this axe talk.


    First you state that you 'almost never used both p/u's', and then you claim
    how
    you 'often' used this setting . Hmmmm....
  11. Zorro_2K

    Zorro_2K Guest

    "Mondoslug1" <mondoslug1@aol.com> wrote in message
    news:20030814155532.13276.00000537@mb-m16.aol.com...
    > > so there is no hurry
    > >to change anything, and little to lose or gain either way. Do
    > >whatever makes you happy with it.

    >
    > Change the wiring, it'll be fine & you'll actually be able to use the

    pickup.
    >


    I agree....the vintage electronics wiring is sonically limiting.
  12. Zorro_2K

    Zorro_2K Guest

    "cooper" <tonycooper88@cox.net> wrote in message
    news:_v%_a.678$uh6.439@lakeread05...
    > I rewired mine myself.It's an easy fix.
    > My pickups were very microphonic and I
    > replaced them with a set of Texas Specials.
    > The thang twangs-n-screams.
    > Mine is a '83.
    > Kept the original bridge saddles.
    > My tech said he couldn't get it much better.
    > I play through a Mark II c+ 100watt 4-12 BS-EV.
    > The last rig I ever had to buy........
    >
    > coop



    My ears are bleeding just reading about it...... ;-)
  13. "Zorro_2K" <pcollenDELETETHIS@cfl.rr.com> wrote in message news:<vt4%a.44041$K4.2142076@twister.tampabay.rr.com>...

    > "Modern" is understood to mean American Standard wiring, not simply
    > "post-53".


    > You forgot replacing the 0.05uf tone cap with a 0.022 uf cap.


    You silly, "American Standard" is a marketing term, & U know very well
    that for the purpose of the submitter's Q they are the same wiring
    xcpt the more recent cap change, which means little. By the time one
    compares the tolerances of the 2 cap values involved and their eras,
    one will find it is even possible for these 2 values to actually
    measure very close to one another.

    > As you as
    > > an owner already know, you have the front (neck) p/u alone selected in
    > > the midposition with the original scheme. However, many of the early
    > > issues did not have both pickups wound with the same polarity, so you
    > > may occasionally have an out-of-phase sound with rewiring for both
    > > p/u's unless you alter one's polarity.

    >
    > Or you may or, in all likelyhood, may not. There is always the remote
    > possibility that the factory wired the pickups out of phase, as well. Let's
    > not digress to unlikely deviations.


    It was not "remote" in the early days, and we do not know how new or
    old his axe is; this is not any digression into unlikelihood in terms
    of the submitter's post.

    > FWIW I eventually returned
    > > mine to the early wiring, as I found I almost never used both p/u's
    > > and didn't like having to throw the switch so far during my playing.
    > > BTW it is a simple matter to stick the switch btw positions to have
    > > both pu's with original wiring, once you get the hang of doing it. I
    > > often used my little finger on one control. third finger on the other,
    > > and could work everything while playing this way, by using the early
    > > wiring. This is how many of us made this axe talk.


    > First you state that you 'almost never used both p/u's', and then you claim
    > how
    > you 'often' used this setting .


    You have a literacy problem - nowhere did I say I often used the stuck
    switch setting, only that it was easily do-able from the
    finger/control position I often used. sorry to disturb you, you can
    go back to lintpicking<hee-hee>.
  14. Zorro_2K

    Zorro_2K Guest

    <lbrty4us@aol.com> wrote in message
    news:205ef942.0308180733.73436588@posting.google.com...
    > "Zorro_2K" <pcollenDELETETHIS@cfl.rr.com> wrote in message

    news:<vt4%a.44041$K4.2142076@twister.tampabay.rr.com>...
    >
    > > "Modern" is understood to mean American Standard wiring, not simply
    > > "post-53".

    >
    > > You forgot replacing the 0.05uf tone cap with a 0.022 uf cap.

    >
    > You silly, "American Standard" is a marketing term, & U know very well
    > that for the purpose of the submitter's Q they are the same wiring
    > xcpt the more recent cap change, which means little. By the time one
    > compares the tolerances of the 2 cap values involved and their eras,
    > one will find it is even possible for these 2 values to actually
    > measure very close to one another.
    >
    > > As you as
    > > > an owner already know, you have the front (neck) p/u alone selected in
    > > > the midposition with the original scheme. However, many of the early
    > > > issues did not have both pickups wound with the same polarity, so you
    > > > may occasionally have an out-of-phase sound with rewiring for both
    > > > p/u's unless you alter one's polarity.

    > >
    > > Or you may or, in all likelyhood, may not. There is always the remote
    > > possibility that the factory wired the pickups out of phase, as well.

    Let's
    > > not digress to unlikely deviations.

    >
    > It was not "remote" in the early days, and we do not know how new or
    > old his axe is; this is not any digression into unlikelihood in terms
    > of the submitter's post.
    >
    > > FWIW I eventually returned
    > > > mine to the early wiring, as I found I almost never used both p/u's
    > > > and didn't like having to throw the switch so far during my playing.
    > > > BTW it is a simple matter to stick the switch btw positions to have
    > > > both pu's with original wiring, once you get the hang of doing it. I
    > > > often used my little finger on one control. third finger on the other,
    > > > and could work everything while playing this way, by using the early
    > > > wiring. This is how many of us made this axe talk.

    >
    > > First you state that you 'almost never used both p/u's', and then you

    claim
    > > how
    > > you 'often' used this setting .

    >
    > You have a literacy problem - nowhere did I say I often used the stuck
    > switch setting, only that it was easily do-able from the
    > finger/control position I often used. sorry to disturb you, you can
    > go back to lintpicking<hee-hee>.


    You mis-spelled 'nitpicking'...

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