Watching Shania

Discussion in 'rec.audio.pro' started by Mike Rivers, Aug 20, 2003.

  1. EggHd

    EggHd Guest

    << So Egg what's your views on the state of C&W radio which is pretty much what
    I'm talking about? >>

    Country radio is so crowded that, as opposed to a rock or pop act going to
    radio 6 to 8 weeks before the album, a track at country can take 4 months or
    more to get enough spins to build awareness for a CD.

    Right now on the country R&R chart all records in the top 40 have a bullet
    exept 2! All on their way up with NO room to move.

    Interesting to look at the #1 record is getting 6800 spins a week and the #10
    record is getting 3600 spins a week. So for the guy at #10 (keith urban) to
    ever make it to #1 he has to increase his spins by 2x while keeping the same
    spins going underneath. This means next week he needs another 3600 and an
    increase of 200 or more to keep the bullet and not get jumped.

    "Superstars" are being released now to get ready for holiday shoppers and it's
    goin to get more jammed.

    Ugly.



    ---------------------------------------
    "I know enough to know I don't know enough"
  2. Mondoslug1

    Mondoslug1 Guest

  3. EggHd

    EggHd Guest

    << So Egg what's your views on the state of C&W radio >>

    I forgot to mention even while everyone is fighting for chart position and
    spins, it doesn't take into account recurrents... records that were hits that
    are still getting played but after 26 or so weeks get taken off the chart but
    are still hoggin' the stations spins...

    Brook's and Dunn's Red Dirt Road is still getting 4400 spins a week, but off
    the chart for instance.



    ---------------------------------------
    "I know enough to know I don't know enough"
  4. EggHd

    EggHd Guest

    << Incidentally, I was switching channels the other night (around 2am),
    consciously avoiding the VMA awards, and I happened to pop back to MTV long
    enough to catch Damian Rice's Volcano. >>

    I saw him solo in Nashville in May. He was great. He did some cool things
    with his acoustic guitar thru an amp added at times for effect and he had some
    kind of echo box where he could get cool loops of his guitar or voice going in
    spots.

    Very cool.



    ---------------------------------------
    "I know enough to know I don't know enough"
  5. ryanm

    ryanm Guest

    "EggHd" <egghd@aol.com> wrote in message
    news:20030829162639.19936.00000126@mb-m28.aol.com...
    >
    > Yet Led Zepplin broke on POP radio with "Good Times Bad Times" Hendrex had

    a
    > POP hit with Foxy Lady, Joe Cocker was doing Beatles and Traffic covers,

    and
    > Grand Funk did The Locomotion and We're an American Band.
    >
    > The cool this was, as you say is that you also hear helen Ready John

    Denver and
    > Bo Donaldson and the Heywards on the same station.
    >

    Right, you got a bit of both on the pop stations, and then you could
    decide which you liked and buy the albums from there. I don't know if any
    good music is coming out anymore because the only stuff that gets airplay is
    the homogenized bubblegum pop crap, and I can't sit through it long enough
    to find the occasional gem.

    Incidentally, I was switching channels the other night (around 2am),
    consciously avoiding the VMA awards, and I happened to pop back to MTV long
    enough to catch Damian Rice's Volcano. I was pleasantly surprised to find an
    artist who can both sing and play guitar, and had a nice melody to listen
    to. Not that I thought the song was great or anything, but it's a nice
    change form the usual hip hop and brittany spears type crap that usually
    gets airtime on MTV. I mean, it's no CSNY by any means, but better, by and
    large, than what I've heard on commercial radio or MTV in quite a while. Of
    course I knew about Nora Jones before MTV got ahold of her, simply by
    proximity (I'm about 20 miles from North Texas), and I like her Phoebe
    Snow-like style and appreciate the fact that she's a good musician. But one
    song by one guy and a couple songs by one girl don't make for enough
    diversity to be useful.

    ryanm
  6. ryanm

    ryanm Guest

    "EggHd" <egghd@aol.com> wrote in message
    news:20030829162929.19936.00000127@mb-m28.aol.com...
    >
    > Classic stations don't get worked by record companies at all on catalog.

    They
    > play what the believe their station wants. If their ratings go too low

    playing
    > Boston all the time, the next thing you'l know, it'll be a smooth jazz

    station,
    >

    Well, it must be working for them, because they've been playing "More
    Than A Feeling" 12 times a day for at least 2 decades.

    > Classic rock has pretty bad ratings these days
    >

    Actually, Dallas has a brand new "Southern Rock" station (93.3 The Bone)
    that seems to be doing well. I think there's a lot more market for it than
    radio stations think, but it's a risk that most aren't willing to take.

    ryanm
  7. I solved that problem, I listen to 93.3 :) Funny, but one time I was
    helping an artist friend of mine on one of his mural painting jobs (I can't
    do anything but help him roll a wall a solid color for him to start painting
    on, but it helps him when he's bogged down and we get to hang out together
    like when we were kids)... anyway, we were listening to the radio and the
    station which originally was on 93.3 has drifted to 92.5 KZPS, it was an old
    analog tuner, we listened to it for an hour or so... I didn't hear a station
    ID so I didn't know I was really listening to 92.5, and I ended up calling
    the deejay at 93.3 and telling him that they were sounding like KZPS and
    playing utter crap. Imagine my surprise when I realized that the song
    playing on his end wasn't the one on mine. We checked the radio and lo and
    behold, it was on the wrong station :) I don't remember being able to peg a
    station so easily in the past... when did it change?

    "ryanm" <ryanm@fatchicksinpartyhats.com> wrote in message
    news:vkvct6h0dthl84@corp.supernews.com...
    > "LeBaron & Alrich" <walkinay@thegrid.net> wrote in message
    > news:1g0fy3a.1ycijzb1kbl5wuN%walkinay@thegrid.net...
    > >
    > > In isolated instances it may well have worked that way, but right now
    > > there is polenty of non-action in the sales park in response to airplay.
    > > Remember that one key point about radio trying to drive a song down an
    > > audience's throat: if it causes the listener to change stations, the
    > > game is over for the _station_. Ain't nobody running a station going to
    > > want to be remembered for that.
    > >

    > Somebody tell that to the local Dallas station 92.5 (KZPS), every

    third
    > song they play is Boston. Makes me change the station all the time. Not

    that
    > I dislike Boston or think they suck or anything, I've just heard them 47
    > times a day for the past 20 years, and don't care if I ever hear them

    again.
    >
    > ryanm
    >
    >
  8. See my post on this. I wouldn't exactly call it "Southern Rock", they do
    play 80's hard rock as well. It's not unusual to hear Ozzy Osbourne followed
    by Triumph followed by Led Zepplin followed by Motley Crue.

    > Actually, Dallas has a brand new "Southern Rock" station (93.3 The

    Bone)
    > that seems to be doing well. I think there's a lot more market for it than
    > radio stations think, but it's a risk that most aren't willing to take.
    >
    > ryanm
    >
    >
  9. Mike Rivers

    Mike Rivers Guest

    In article <vl0lta6j7kqj1d@corp.supernews.com> romeorondeau@attbi.com writes:

    > I solved that problem, I listen to 93.3 :)


    I listen to WWOZ (New Orleans) on the Internet (http://www.wwoz.org)

    I seem to like whatever's on every time I "tune it in." But then this
    isn't stuff that they play on MTV or commercial radio stations. KEXP
    (Seattle) is also in my bookmark list.

    We used to have some radio stations in the DC area that I could turn
    on any time and enjoy, but no longer. The non-commercial and community
    stations have gone to more talk and less music. That's not why I
    listen to the radio (except for Car Talk, which I'm listening to right
    now).



    --
    I'm really Mike Rivers - (mrivers@d-and-d.com)
  10. Wayne

    Wayne Guest

    Mike Rivers wrote

    >That's not why I
    >listen to the radio (except for Car Talk, which I'm listening to right
    >now).


    Saturday morning mandantory listening. I've had to hold up sessions for Car
    Talk. <gr>

    Wayne
  11. Ten years ago, there were a multitude of stations here that I used to listen
    to. We're down to one, so next step is one of those goofy xm jobbies. I
    can't really hang with CD's in the car, too hard to manipulate while
    driving... I scare myself sometimes :) I'm too cheap to buy a huge CD
    changer... I'm sure there are kids that can listen to a number of stations,
    I can't do it anymore, I'm just not interested in what the kids are doing
    with their 7-string Schecters this week.

    >
    > I listen to WWOZ (New Orleans) on the Internet (http://www.wwoz.org)
    >
    > I seem to like whatever's on every time I "tune it in." But then this
    > isn't stuff that they play on MTV or commercial radio stations. KEXP
    > (Seattle) is also in my bookmark list.
    >
    > We used to have some radio stations in the DC area that I could turn
    > on any time and enjoy, but no longer. The non-commercial and community
    > stations have gone to more talk and less music. That's not why I
    > listen to the radio (except for Car Talk, which I'm listening to right
    > now).
    >
    >
    >
    > --
    > I'm really Mike Rivers - (mrivers@d-and-d.com)
  12. Dave Martin

    Dave Martin Guest

    "LeBaron & Alrich" <walkinay@thegrid.net> wrote in message
    news:1g0fao6.11qvwf0fnzwksN%walkinay@thegrid.net...
    > Dave Martin <dmainc@earthlink.net> wrote:
    >
    > > Les, you're not buying into the Iceland gag too, are you?

    >
    > Next thing you know these people will believe there's a Nashville.
    >
    > --

    Nah - Everybody knows that Nashville went away a couple of decades ago. No,
    there's just a small scale versions of Atlanta where I-24 meets I-40 and
    I-65

    --
    Dave Martin
    Java Jive Studio
    Nashville, TN
    www.javajivestudio.com
  13. Dave Martin

    Dave Martin Guest

    "Les Cargill" <lcargill@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message
    news:3F4EFE6B.C3A2030@worldnet.att.net...
    > I know somebody who traces descent to the guy who voted Leif Erikson* off
    > the island. Sorta skews yer perspective.
    >
    > *No, not *THAT* one. The other one.
    >

    I'm glad you clarified that - I would have voted 'that' one off the island,
    too.

    --
    Dave Martin
    Java Jive Studio
    Nashville, TN
    www.javajivestudio.com
  14. Dave Martin

    Dave Martin Guest

    "EggHd" <egghd@aol.com> wrote in message
    news:20030829115033.28589.00000210@mb-m03.aol.com...

    > As an aside "It's My Party" is a well made record.
    >
    >

    Damn sure is; lots of folks talk about the Wrecking Crew and the Funk
    Brothers, but the New York session players from that era were great. And so
    were the arrangers.

    --
    Dave Martin
    Java Jive Studio
    Nashville, TN
    www.javajivestudio.com
  15. Dave Martin

    Dave Martin Guest

    "Jay Kadis" <jay@ccrma.Stanford.EDU> wrote in message
    news:biodgm$s5q$1@news.Stanford.EDU...

    > [snip]
    >
    > I'm not sure I agree about fragmentation. Never was there more of a

    golden age
    > of rock radio than when FM stations (like KMPX and KSAN in SF) began

    playing
    > album cuts by Jefferson Airplane and (the original) Fleetwood Mac as an
    > alternative to the pop heard on AM radio. Fragmentation has been carried

    to
    > its logical extreme, but some separation of musical interests is not in

    and of
    > itself a bad thing. We just need some moderation of the extremes.
    >

    No, what was more of a golden age and more fun (to me, at least) was when
    Jefferson Airplane and Fleetwood Mac songs were interspersed with Bo Diddly,
    Flatt And Scruggs, Albert King and Commander Cody in the same half hour. It
    took knowledgeable DJ's to pull that off, though. Or small town AM jocks...
    --
    Dave Martin
    Java Jive Studio
    Nashville, TN
    www.javajivestudio.com
  16. EggHd

    EggHd Guest

    << Damn sure is; lots of folks talk about the Wrecking Crew and the Funk
    Brothers, but the New York session players from that era were great. And so
    were the arrangers. >>

    I'm always surprised at people who have very rigid tastes and refuse to look at
    "hit" records if for no other reason to marvel at the craft involved even in
    some of the most pop teen bands. You can always learn something.







    ---------------------------------------
    "I know enough to know I don't know enough"
  17. Mike Rivers

    Mike Rivers Guest

    In article <bitoie$d4geu$5@ID-190397.news.uni-berlin.de> dmainc@earthlink.net writes:

    > No, what was more of a golden age and more fun (to me, at least) was when
    > Jefferson Airplane and Fleetwood Mac songs were interspersed with Bo Diddly,
    > Flatt And Scruggs, Albert King and Commander Cody in the same half hour. It
    > took knowledgeable DJ's to pull that off, though. Or small town AM jocks...


    That sounds like the late, lamented KFAT in Gilroy. That was a small
    town FM station that had the sort of programming that if you didn't
    like what was playing, you'd almost certainly like the next song.


    --
    I'm really Mike Rivers - (mrivers@d-and-d.com)
  18. "EggHd" <egghd@aol.com> wrote in message
    news:20030831172942.08106.00000205@mb-m14.aol.com...
    > << Damn sure is; lots of folks talk about the Wrecking Crew and the Funk
    > Brothers, but the New York session players from that era were great. And

    so
    > were the arrangers. >>
    >
    > I'm always surprised at people who have very rigid tastes and refuse to

    look at
    > "hit" records if for no other reason to marvel at the craft involved even

    in
    > some of the most pop teen bands. You can always learn something.


    It's a artists nature to dislike something that is commercially succesful,
    especially if the artist is not.
  19. Sugarite

    Sugarite Guest

    > I'm always surprised at people who have very rigid tastes and refuse to
    look at
    > "hit" records if for no other reason to marvel at the craft involved even

    in
    > some of the most pop teen bands. You can always learn something.


    About what? How to be at best marginally consequential in a marketing
    campaign?

    Last 4 productions I've observed go over the $1M mark have had at least half
    their budget go towards figuring out exactly what the poster girl should
    sing, exactly how she should go about it, and then of course the three
    months it takes to actually get it out of her. And they STILL squash the
    crap out of it and unleash auto-tune with wanton abandon, as per the
    producer's directive.

    What exactly are we to learn from that crap.
  20. Mike Rivers

    Mike Rivers Guest

    In article <8XE4b.5566$Pa1.271623@read1.cgocable.net> nobody@home.com writes:

    > Last 4 productions I've observed go over the $1M mark have had at least half
    > their budget go towards


    1. > figuring out exactly what the poster girl should sing,
    2. > exactly how she should go about it
    3. > the three months it takes to actually get it out of her.
    4. > they STILL squash the crap out of it
    5. > unleash auto-tune with wanton abandon, as per the producer's directive.

    > What exactly are we to learn from that crap.


    There's certainly something to be learned from 1, 2, and 3.

    Choosing material is really difficult when you want a commercial
    success. Maybe the goal is to find a song that sounds like a real
    song, but in reality the lyrics aren't so deep that you lose the hook.
    A problem with so many home-produced singer-songwriter disks is that
    they write better poetry than songs, so their songs "grab" very few
    people.

    Working out an arrangement is also very important. Again using the
    home-produced singer-songwriter example, with a big ego ("See, I can
    play all the instruments I need.") and no budget to hire good
    musicians and structure an arrangement that either doesn't require
    re-arrangement in the mix or that lends itself well to that production
    technique (depending on the bent of the producer). Think about how
    you'd plan out the sessions for a hit record. I'll bet it's different
    than going to your spare bedroom after dinner and laying down a few
    tracks.

    Isn't it fun to try to hear the edits and punches?

    4 and 5 are just part of the formula without which it wouldn't get
    airplay and would sound lousy when downloaded and played on the
    computer speakers.



    --
    I'm really Mike Rivers - (mrivers@d-and-d.com)

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