Weber 10" speakers?

Discussion in 'rec.music.guitar' started by Jack A. Zucker, Aug 26, 2003.

  1. Richard

    Richard Guest

    jaz@jackzucker.com wrote...

    > Can you map the C10NQ speakers to those that he's offering now?


    I've tried a few times to figure out his new scheme, and gave up.
    Easiest thing to do is just email Ted. I'll take another look at it
    if doing it Friday is OK. (Still up to my eyeballs in alligators re:
    work.)

    Also: The ones I had were paper cones (not that I recall this was an
    option).

    How's Margaret's answer? That's probably correct.

    --
    "Leave the donkeys to their thistles." -- old Persian saying
  2. Ylo

    Ylo Guest

    jaz@jackzucker.com (Jack A. Zucker) wrote in message news:<2f33c43f.0308260520.7e7a8fb@posting.google.com>...
    > I just picked up a Vibroclone amp. It's a bandmaster reverb in a repro
    > 2x10 chassis. Because of pending neck surgery, I'm looking for a pair
    > of 10" speakers


    I put a pair of Weber C10N (don't know the new model no.) into my
    Princeton Chorus home practice amp. At first they were a bit bright,
    but after a couple of weeks they mellowed and now they sound great.
    This wasn't my ears, I actually measured the speakers. They really do
    break in. For $75 each they sure beat the Fender "Special Design"
    crap speakers that came with the amp. The stock speakers had a 15 dB
    peak at around 2.5 kHz that really sounded bizarre, kind of like a
    cocked wah pedal, and not my "thing" at all.

    You can't go wrong with the Webers for the price. All you have to do
    is figure out whether you want straight cone, ribbed, doped, etc.

    Chris Taylor
    Boston
  3. PCollen

    PCollen Guest

    Tony Hwang <dragon40@shaw.ca> wrote in message news:<vwT2b.847642$ro6.16801800@news2.calgary.shaw.ca>...
    > Hi,
    > Now we're moving to speakers from amps.
    > Would anyone like to guess what's up next after speakers?
    > Tony


    LOL, Tony. I've followed this thread through and quite frankly am
    expecting
    Jack to move on to cables, jacks, and plugs next.......

    Speaking of plugs, Margaret seems a little miffed a Jack for not
    reading her info-post, don't you think ?
  4. PCollen

    PCollen Guest

    jaz@jackzucker.com (Jack A. Zucker) wrote in message news:<2f33c43f.0308260520.7e7a8fb@posting.google.com>...
    > I just picked up a Vibroclone amp. It's a bandmaster reverb in a repro
    > 2x10 chassis. Because of pending neck surgery, I'm looking for a pair
    > of 10" speakers that are not too heavy (no JBL or EV) but have some
    > robustness to their tone.


    What is in the amp right now, Jack ? Is the ONLY issue weight ?


    > I'm currently "sitting" on an Allen modded Princeton reverb that has a
    > Weber California 12" speaker in it. At first I didn't care much for
    > the speaker but as it's broken it, I've decided I really like it
    > though my one complaint is that it's got a little too much high end to
    > sound really smooth for fusion stuff. I suppose I could try the 10"
    > versions but I wanted to get some opinions from other folks. I've also
    > heard that the Weber Chicago speaker is very similar to the California
    > but without the high end spike...


    If you mic the amp, parametric EQ can take that high end spike right
    out.


    > One thing that complicates matters is that I play a wide variety of
    > disparate styles and it's hard to find a speaker that sounds good for
    > all of them though the Weber CA 12 seems to do a good job through most
    > of the styles. For example, while I love the Jenson speakers (even the
    > reissues), they tend to sound flabby for higher gain fusiony tones.


    I don't agree...

    > Speakers like the EV 12L sound great for the higher gain stuff but
    > don't have the snap or nastyness for the Gatton type stuff...


    Again, I don't agree....


    It's a
    > tough balancing act.


    If you are trying to make a single amp work for both applications,
    then your balancing act is even tougher.....


    > Anyway, I'd be interested to hear folks' take on 10" speakers...
    >
    > Jaz


    My take on 10" speakers is to replace them with 12's if cabinet
    real-estate allows. Best Super Reverb I ever heard had two JBL 12's
    in it.
  5. Richard

    Richard Guest

    pcollen@cfl.rr.com wrote...

    > > I'm currently "sitting" on an Allen modded Princeton reverb that has a
    > > Weber California 12" speaker in it. At first I didn't care much for
    > > the speaker but as it's broken it, I've decided I really like it
    > > though my one complaint is that it's got a little too much high end to
    > > sound really smooth for fusion stuff. I suppose I could try the 10"
    > > versions but I wanted to get some opinions from other folks. I've also
    > > heard that the Weber Chicago speaker is very similar to the California
    > > but without the high end spike...

    >
    > If you mic the amp, parametric EQ can take that high end spike right
    > out.


    And if a frog had wings, it'd fly.

    EQ'ing the amp on the board helps the audience sitting a few rows
    back. How's it help the people listening to the amp on stage, and
    the audience directly in front of the amp? You'd really suggest all
    those folks should put with overbearing high end out of an amp rather
    than simply swap the speaker?

    I think your desire to bust Jack's chops is clouding your judgement.

    That said, I have to say that I've had a great "fusion" sound out of
    Jensen speakers. But that was when Jensens were in Twin Reverbs, set
    no higher than 4, and I used a good distortion pedal (a Burn Unit).
    The Jensens I've used in lower power amps don't sound real "fusiony"
    when pushed into breakup, IMO, althought it's a classic rock sound.

    --
    "Leave the donkeys to their thistles." -- old Persian saying
  6. ctaylor@gis.net (Ylo) wrote in message
    > I put a pair of Weber C10N (don't know the new model no.) into my
    > Princeton Chorus home practice amp. At first they were a bit bright,
    > but after a couple of weeks they mellowed and now they sound great.
    > This wasn't my ears, I actually measured the speakers. They really do
    > break in. For $75 each they sure beat the Fender "Special Design"
    > crap speakers that came with the amp. The stock speakers had a 15 dB
    > peak at around 2.5 kHz that really sounded bizarre, kind of like a
    > cocked wah pedal, and not my "thing" at all.


    Great description and I agree 100%.

    > You can't go wrong with the Webers for the price. All you have to do
    > is figure out whether you want straight cone, ribbed, doped, etc.


    Yeah - Too many choices - Plus, apparently he's changed the model #s
    from the Jensen style number (of which I have no knowledge) to the
    "state" nomenclature. He's got a little javascript applet on one of
    his pages which is supposed to translate the old model #s to the new
    ones but I tried keying in a few models that folks were listing from
    this thread and it couldn't translate them.

    All I know is that the Weber 12" California speaker (paper dome)
    sounds VERY good and VERY fendery for clean and for semi-dirty
    playing. It's got too much high-end content for fusiony leads though
    but it's perfect for that Gatton/Buchanan type of thing.

    Maybe the thing to do would be to put a pair of California 10s in the
    combo cab and get a 2x12 cab for the more fusiony stuff. As several
    folks have pointed out, I could mix 2 different speakers but I'm
    probably better off optimizing.

    Thanks everyone for your suggestions.
  7. You might think about two different types of speakers, an alnico and a
    ceramic. I did this in my Super Reverb and it works well. I put Eminence
    Legend 1028Ks in the top and Mojo Black Beauty 10"s in the bottom. Neither
    of these speakers is great on their own but together they compliment each
    other nicely.
    Tubeguru
    "Jack A. Zucker" <jaz@jackzucker.com> wrote in message
    news:2f33c43f.0308260520.7e7a8fb@posting.google.com...
    > I just picked up a Vibroclone amp. It's a bandmaster reverb in a repro
    > 2x10 chassis. Because of pending neck surgery, I'm looking for a pair
    > of 10" speakers that are not too heavy (no JBL or EV) but have some
    > robustness to their tone.
    >
    > I'm currently "sitting" on an Allen modded Princeton reverb that has a
    > Weber California 12" speaker in it. At first I didn't care much for
    > the speaker but as it's broken it, I've decided I really like it
    > though my one complaint is that it's got a little too much high end to
    > sound really smooth for fusion stuff. I suppose I could try the 10"
    > versions but I wanted to get some opinions from other folks. I've also
    > heard that the Weber Chicago speaker is very similar to the California
    > but without the high end spike...
    >
    > One thing that complicates matters is that I play a wide variety of
    > disparate styles and it's hard to find a speaker that sounds good for
    > all of them though the Weber CA 12 seems to do a good job through most
    > of the styles. For example, while I love the Jenson speakers (even the
    > reissues), they tend to sound flabby for higher gain fusiony tones.
    > Speakers like the EV 12L sound great for the higher gain stuff but
    > don't have the snap or nastyness for the Gatton type stuff...It's a
    > tough balancing act.
    >
    > Anyway, I'd be interested to hear folks' take on 10" speakers...
    >
    > Jaz
  8. Tony Hwang <dragon40@shaw.ca> wrote in message news:<vwT2b.847642$ro6.16801800@news2.calgary.shaw.ca>...
    > Hi,
    > Now we're moving to speakers from amps.
    > Would anyone like to guess what's up next after speakers?


    Yes - L-pads and spkr wire. :) Then beam blockers & maybe condoms.
  9. "Jack A. Zucker" <jaz@jackzucker.com> wrote in message
    news:YKP2b.18727$2Y6.5791649@news2.news.adelphia.net...
    > I'm still confused. I have no idea what Q cone or N magnet is. Are

    these
    > references to the old Jensen nomenclature?
    >


    I'm with you. I find the Weber site totally bewildering for basic
    *real-world* answers to the question "which speaker do I want?". It
    comes off as "By speaker geeks-For speaker geeks" to me. Not to say I
    wouldn't love a pair for my Rivera Quiana. I know, I know - "call Ted".

    Kerry M
  10. pcollen@cfl.rr.com (PCollen) wrote in message
    >
    > What is in the amp right now, Jack ? Is the ONLY issue weight ?


    Well (sheepishly), I have not receieved the amp yet. It has Weber
    Texas speakers in it which the website says were designed for early
    breakup which is not really my cup of tea but I'll certainly live with
    them for a few weeks to get a feel for them. I believe they use the
    same magnet as the Californias.

    > If you mic the amp, parametric EQ can take that high end spike right
    > out.


    Unfortunately, I'm not in the position to do that at this point.

    > > One thing that complicates matters is that I play a wide variety of
    > > disparate styles and it's hard to find a speaker that sounds good for
    > > all of them though the Weber CA 12 seems to do a good job through most
    > > of the styles. For example, while I love the Jenson speakers (even the
    > > reissues), they tend to sound flabby for higher gain fusiony tones.

    >
    > I don't agree...


    Maybe I've never played through a good set then. Most of the Jensens
    that are still around seem to have one foot in the grave. Enough folks
    have raved about the C10NQ that I may give those a try but the Cali 12
    sounds awfully good. It just doesn't have a good fusion tone but all
    it's other sounds are so good it's hard to beat.

    > > Speakers like the EV 12L sound great for the higher gain stuff but
    > > don't have the snap or nastyness for the Gatton type stuff...

    >
    > Again, I don't agree....


    It's a moot point 'cuz I'm not going to put 10" EV or JBL speakers in
    the amp! :) Regarding 12" speakers, the recent EV 12L speakers have a
    nasty midrange spike that negatively colors the tone. The best EVs
    were the Rivera OEM'd ones called Fender 12F and Fender 10F.


    > It's a
    > > tough balancing act.

    >
    > If you are trying to make a single amp work for both applications,
    > then your balancing act is even tougher.....


    You're right. Best bet is probably going with Cali 10s and putting
    something else in an extension cab.

    > > Anyway, I'd be interested to hear folks' take on 10" speakers...
    > >
    > > Jaz

    >
    > My take on 10" speakers is to replace them with 12's if cabinet
    > real-estate allows. Best Super Reverb I ever heard had two JBL 12's
    > in it.


    I like 10s though. They have a nastyness to them that the 12" speakers
    can't get.
  11. Gtski

    Gtski Guest

    "PCollen" <pcollen@cfl.rr.com> wrote in message
    news:7c061413.0308270417.7af55ea2@posting.google.com...
    > jaz@jackzucker.com (Jack A. Zucker) wrote in message

    news:<2f33c43f.0308260520.7e7a8fb@posting.google.com>...
    > > I just picked up a Vibroclone amp. It's a bandmaster reverb in a repro
    > > 2x10 chassis. Because of pending neck surgery, I'm looking for a pair
    > > of 10" speakers that are not too heavy (no JBL or EV) but have some
    > > robustness to their tone.

    >
    > What is in the amp right now, Jack ? Is the ONLY issue weight ?
    >
    >
    > > I'm currently "sitting" on an Allen modded Princeton reverb that has a
    > > Weber California 12" speaker in it. At first I didn't care much for
    > > the speaker but as it's broken it, I've decided I really like it
    > > though my one complaint is that it's got a little too much high end to
    > > sound really smooth for fusion stuff. I suppose I could try the 10"
    > > versions but I wanted to get some opinions from other folks. I've also
    > > heard that the Weber Chicago speaker is very similar to the California
    > > but without the high end spike...

    >
    > If you mic the amp, parametric EQ can take that high end spike right
    > out.
    >
    >
    > > One thing that complicates matters is that I play a wide variety of
    > > disparate styles and it's hard to find a speaker that sounds good for
    > > all of them though the Weber CA 12 seems to do a good job through most
    > > of the styles. For example, while I love the Jenson speakers (even the
    > > reissues), they tend to sound flabby for higher gain fusiony tones.

    >
    > I don't agree...
    >
    > > Speakers like the EV 12L sound great for the higher gain stuff but
    > > don't have the snap or nastyness for the Gatton type stuff...

    >
    > Again, I don't agree....
    >
    >
    > It's a
    > > tough balancing act.

    >
    > If you are trying to make a single amp work for both applications,
    > then your balancing act is even tougher.....
    >
    >
    > > Anyway, I'd be interested to hear folks' take on 10" speakers...
    > >
    > > Jaz

    >
    > My take on 10" speakers is to replace them with 12's if cabinet
    > real-estate allows. Best Super Reverb I ever heard had two JBL 12's
    > in it.


    Then you never heard a REAL good SR.... the 4-10s rule..! ! ! :)

    gtski
  12. Gtski

    Gtski Guest

    "Jack A. Zucker" <jaz@jackzucker.com> wrote in message
    news:2f33c43f.0308280540.6d5b897d@posting.google.com...
    > pcollen@cfl.rr.com (PCollen) wrote in message
    > >
    > > What is in the amp right now, Jack ? Is the ONLY issue weight ?

    >
    > Well (sheepishly), I have not receieved the amp yet. It has Weber
    > Texas speakers in it which the website says were designed for early
    > breakup which is not really my cup of tea but I'll certainly live with
    > them for a few weeks to get a feel for them. I believe they use the
    > same magnet as the Californias.
    >
    > > If you mic the amp, parametric EQ can take that high end spike right
    > > out.

    >
    > Unfortunately, I'm not in the position to do that at this point.
    >
    > > > One thing that complicates matters is that I play a wide variety of
    > > > disparate styles and it's hard to find a speaker that sounds good for
    > > > all of them though the Weber CA 12 seems to do a good job through most
    > > > of the styles. For example, while I love the Jenson speakers (even the
    > > > reissues), they tend to sound flabby for higher gain fusiony tones.

    > >
    > > I don't agree...

    >
    > Maybe I've never played through a good set then. Most of the Jensens
    > that are still around seem to have one foot in the grave. Enough folks
    > have raved about the C10NQ that I may give those a try but the Cali 12
    > sounds awfully good. It just doesn't have a good fusion tone but all
    > it's other sounds are so good it's hard to beat.
    >
    > > > Speakers like the EV 12L sound great for the higher gain stuff but
    > > > don't have the snap or nastyness for the Gatton type stuff...

    > >
    > > Again, I don't agree....

    >
    > It's a moot point 'cuz I'm not going to put 10" EV or JBL speakers in
    > the amp! :) Regarding 12" speakers, the recent EV 12L speakers have a
    > nasty midrange spike that negatively colors the tone. The best EVs
    > were the Rivera OEM'd ones called Fender 12F and Fender 10F.
    >
    >
    > > It's a
    > > > tough balancing act.

    > >
    > > If you are trying to make a single amp work for both applications,
    > > then your balancing act is even tougher.....

    >
    > You're right. Best bet is probably going with Cali 10s and putting
    > something else in an extension cab.
    >
    > > > Anyway, I'd be interested to hear folks' take on 10" speakers...
    > > >
    > > > Jaz

    > >
    > > My take on 10" speakers is to replace them with 12's if cabinet
    > > real-estate allows. Best Super Reverb I ever heard had two JBL 12's
    > > in it.

    >
    > I like 10s though. They have a nastyness to them that the 12" speakers
    > can't get.


    Yep. and they will allow for more 'cut' and 'slice'... IMMHO....
    In a "duel" of 2-12s vs 4-10s.... it's an un-even fight... the
    4-10s will dominate...
    I'd even pick 4-10s over 4-12s in a "live-gig-cut-the-mix" duel....

    gtski
  13. I'm no expert on this stuff, but the little bit of experience I've had with
    replacement speakers leads me to believe that combining different speakers
    may be the way to go. I'm not pushing any particular model, but maybe a
    Weber and a Jenson would sound good together in a cabinet.

    I've got an amp with a Celetion 12 that I use with an extension cabinet
    containing two CA 10s. I get a sound out of that setup that, to my ears,
    beats either cabinet by itself. I haven't done a lot of experimenting with
    mixing and matching speakers, and I don't know if there are any particularly
    useful guidelines for this stuff. But different speakers used together do
    seem to yeild a more complex and rich sound, at least in some cases.


    "Jack A. Zucker" <jaz@jackzucker.com> wrote in message
    news:2f33c43f.0308280540.6d5b897d@posting.google.com...

    > > > One thing that complicates matters is that I play a wide variety of
    > > > disparate styles and it's hard to find a speaker that sounds good for
    > > > all of them though the Weber CA 12 seems to do a good job through most
    > > > of the styles. For example, while I love the Jenson speakers (even the
    > > > reissues), they tend to sound flabby for higher gain fusiony tones.
  14. "Jonathan Giblin" <Jon-Hollynospam@access4cheap.com> wrote in
    message news:bio7nu01e73@enews3.newsguy.com...
    > I'm no expert on this stuff, but the little bit of experience

    I've had with
    > replacement speakers leads me to believe that combining

    different speakers
    > may be the way to go. I'm not pushing any particular model,

    but maybe a
    > Weber and a Jenson would sound good together in a cabinet.
    >
    > I've got an amp with a Celetion 12 that I use with an

    extension cabinet
    > containing two CA 10s. I get a sound out of that setup that,

    to my ears,
    > beats either cabinet by itself. I haven't done a lot of

    experimenting with
    > mixing and matching speakers, and I don't know if there are

    any particularly
    > useful guidelines for this stuff. But different speakers used

    together do
    > seem to yeild a more complex and rich sound, at least in some

    cases.

    Agreed. My Bluesmaster has a 12 and a 10, and it has more oomph
    than any 2x6L6 open-back combo I've ever heard. Part of it is
    due to the circuit and output tranny, but that speaker
    combination sounds nearly as good and strong when driven by
    other amps. Two different resonant frequencies can fatten tone
    considerably. No doubt there's some bizarre interaction
    happening on the baffle, and the frequency response is even less
    linear than a typical guitar amp, but nonlinearity is what gives
    an amp its character. I'm hooked; my next amp might have a 12
    and 2 mismatched 10's: maybe a C12N for oomph, a Celestion 10
    for fatter mids, and a C10Q for sparkle.
  15. "Gtski" <zzzgtski@zzzerols.net> wrote in message news:<biogj2$abk$1@news.chatlink.com>...

    > Then you never heard a REAL good SR.... the 4-10s rule..! ! ! :)


    I found that true, too. Interestingly a few BF & SF SR's came with
    alnicos as well - not something I usually prefer but they sure worked
    great for that 4/10 thing. It did seem that the feedback qualities of
    the 335 was balanced nicely by the added compression of the alnicos.
    Disclaimer: most of my thing with the SR was with a no-effects 335
    doing hard-crank rock & kick-ass boogie (late '60's) in medium-sized
    clubs, up on a chair and wide open. There is something about the
    cripsness and immediacy of multiple tens that is hard to put into
    words, and that can make some amps sound twice as loud and cutting as
    they are. Remember that these were times of ridiculous stage volume
    levels and nothing miked except the Leslies - and that the SR is only
    about a 40+w amp. I also found that the 2/10 BFVR (many years of
    gigging) was similar this way - twice the "slice" of its lowly power
    rating (but the latter never with 'buckers - a VR with 'buckers will
    make you want to give up playing guitar<G>). There is something about
    4/10's that most 'buckers seem to love. I can't define it, but it has
    never come out of any combination of 12's AFAIK.
  16. Gtski

    Gtski Guest

    <lbrty4us@aol.com> wrote in message
    news:205ef942.0308300926.3e5010f2@posting.google.com...
    > "Gtski" <zzzgtski@zzzerols.net> wrote in message

    news:<biogj2$abk$1@news.chatlink.com>...
    >
    > > Then you never heard a REAL good SR.... the 4-10s rule..! ! ! :)

    >
    > I found that true, too. Interestingly a few BF & SF SR's came with
    > alnicos as well - not something I usually prefer but they sure worked
    > great for that 4/10 thing. It did seem that the feedback qualities of
    > the 335 was balanced nicely by the added compression of the alnicos.
    > Disclaimer: most of my thing with the SR was with a no-effects 335
    > doing hard-crank rock & kick-ass boogie (late '60's) in medium-sized
    > clubs, up on a chair and wide open. There is something about the
    > cripsness and immediacy of multiple tens that is hard to put into
    > words, and that can make some amps sound twice as loud and cutting as
    > they are. Remember that these were times of ridiculous stage volume
    > levels and nothing miked except the Leslies - and that the SR is only
    > about a 40+w amp. I also found that the 2/10 BFVR (many years of
    > gigging) was similar this way - twice the "slice" of its lowly power
    > rating (but the latter never with 'buckers - a VR with 'buckers will
    > make you want to give up playing guitar<G>). There is something about
    > 4/10's that most 'buckers seem to love. I can't define it, but it has
    > never come out of any combination of 12's AFAIK.


    That just about says it...

    A 335.. the "right" 335 through a a good SR cranked is a sound 'to
    behold'...
    Somehow the 4-10s give *just* enough bass response and still the mid/highs
    to 'cut' and 'slice' the mix.... in a "loud" situation...

    My 'older' ears are worn enough that I'm thinking of 4-10s with a slightly
    lower wattage amp....

    This week-end I'm taking a 4x10 cab and playing a Pro Jr through it....
    just
    to see what it does... I think it'll sound VERY nice... :)

    gtski

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