weird problems with effects chain

Discussion in 'rec.music.guitar' started by Grant, Aug 4, 2003.

  1. Les Cargill

    Les Cargill Guest

    RC Moonpie wrote:
    >
    > On Wed, 13 Aug 2003 16:32:09 GMT, Les Cargill
    > <lcargill@worldnet.att.net> wrote:
    >
    > >Don't get me wrong - there's a strong whiff of bovine feces to Eno,

    >
    > really? mine smell like plastic. Where you buying yer albums?


    Over by the stockyards. I love the smell of merde in the morning.

    Now returning you to the "Polfus and Mattes Bothers Show"....

    --
    Les Cargill
  2. As RC Moonpie <rcm@hotmail.com> so eloquently put:
    [] On Wed, 13 Aug 2003 04:28:45 GMT, Not A Speck Of Cereal
    [] <XchrissherwoodX@Xcomcast.netX> wrote:
    []
    []
    [] >[] Magritte sucked. Oils suck. Real men use a conte crayon and sheetrock.
    [] >
    [] >So, you admit, finally, that pre-CBS conte crayons and script-logo
    [] >sheetrock are "responsible" for your tOnE?
    []
    []
    [] i'm not a real man, with no real tone. I use Illustrator and
    [] Photoshop.

    digital pos

    --
    "My current strat is actually a hollow tele."
    -- Fabio
    Remove X's from my email address above to reply
    [These opinions are personal views only and only my personal views]
  3. As RC Moonpie <rcm@hotmail.com> so eloquently put:
    [] On Wed, 13 Aug 2003 05:24:27 GMT, Not A Speck Of Cereal
    [] <XchrissherwoodX@Xcomcast.netX> wrote:
    [] >So, the extreme in either world may not appeal to some. A painting
    [] >with nothing but a wash of color, tone, dynamics may be no more
    [] >interesting than someone dropping nails into a piano, which is mic'ed
    [] >and piped into an effects processor set to stun.
    []
    []
    [] or, it could be very interesting. Jackson Pollack vs Brian Eno. I
    [] never could understand the attraction to Pollack, but an art professor
    [] told me, well, he thought of it first, you didnt. I guess.

    Just so's ya knows, I am edumacated in musique concrete, back in the
    college courses with time-honored modular synths and multi-track
    records--no traditional acoustic instruments allowed.

    These examples of mine are just setups to demonstrate what appeals to
    the masses.

    [] Eno is sort
    [] of groovy in a trippy way. The wife hates his stuff.

    Sneak it into a fuck tape -- she'll dig it, then you can pounce on her
    "ah HA! That's Eno!"

    [] >As an example: a photograph of complex ripples on water reflecting a
    [] >deeply colorful twilight sky. Nothing else in the frame but that
    [] >texture. Okay, I got a box of that in the basement.
    [] >
    [] >Add some foreground: the shore, some grass, a silhouette of a person,
    [] >some trees to the side to frame the image. Add to the some background:
    [] >the horizon, with colorful clouds in the sky, perhaps an island poking
    [] >out of the ripping water. Now you have form that appeals to most.
    []
    []
    [] take that to the extreme, and you are in WalMart, loking at poster
    [] prints of Thomas Kinkaid. Yeah he sold 25 million prints that ended up
    [] in the bathrooms of suburbia. He has great skill, I'm not knocking
    [] that at all, I coulndnt do anywhere near as good, but he does sort of
    [] represent the whole "disco-n'synch-macdonalds of modern art". I know
    [] of a fabulously talented water-colorist who will puke if you even
    [] mention his name.

    Aw man. Have I told this story before?

    So my favorite rest-stop, either on the highway or the mall, is
    McDonalds. So I'm walking down the hall of a McDonalds on the way to
    the toilet and am gazing at the large prints of mundane paintings of
    exotic plants, when I stop in my tracks.

    In this one painting, on a large leaf, is a small image of a huge-ass
    RV. I think "some joker put a sticker on this painting". I look
    closer--nope, this sucker was part of the print.

    RAWK! Someone at a print factory figured this could get through the
    cracks of corporate art-print sales, and I salute them.

    [] >I'm down with that. There's a place for the close up texture shot, but
    [] >pulling back is probably more meaningful to most.

    And that was just a setup for me to say "but not all, and that's
    valid"

    [] I guess. milli vanilli sold more than Bela Fleck too. It's sort of all
    [] about perception. And the mainstream perception, towards art in
    [] general, is usually, "I dont know what it is, but i like it" or dont
    [] like it. And traditionally, the mainstream always responds to more
    [] representational forms of art, ie, pop vocal, traditional realism in
    [] art, etc.
    []
    [] I'm not disagreeing with you, at least i dont think i am, i think
    [] maybe we are saying the same things.

    I reckon so.

    Chris


    --
    "My current strat is actually a hollow tele."
    -- Fabio
    Remove X's from my email address above to reply
    [These opinions are personal views only and only my personal views]
  4. As Les Cargill <lcargill@worldnet.att.net> so eloquently put:
    [] RC Moonpie wrote:
    [] > >
    [] > >Pollack's stuff reminds me of Ornette Coleman jazz.
    [...]
    [] > I guess. I didnt get him either.
    []
    []
    [] Nobody does. It's like guessing the letters in alphabet soup. You
    [] just kinda let it wash over you.

    That sounds pretty kinky. Hopefully, you let it cool a bit first.

    Chris

    --
    "My current strat is actually a hollow tele."
    -- Fabio
    Remove X's from my email address above to reply
    [These opinions are personal views only and only my personal views]
  5. Nobody

    Nobody Guest

    Not A Speck Of Cereal <XchrissherwoodX@Xcomcast.netX> wrote in article <6a3mjvcg36cqpis6gi7s2c8eqb0rktnrin@4ax.com>...

    > [] Eno is sort
    > [] of groovy in a trippy way. The wife hates his stuff.
    >
    > Sneak it into a fuck tape -- she'll dig it, then you can pounce on her
    > "ah HA! That's Eno!"


    I did that once with "Houses In Motion" from Talking Heads...Eno produced it right?

    --
    Jason
    http://www.geocities.com/nobody_upstairs
  6. Les Cargill

    Les Cargill Guest

    Not A Speck Of Cereal wrote:
    >
    > As Les Cargill <lcargill@worldnet.att.net> so eloquently put:
    > [] RC Moonpie wrote:
    > [] > >
    > [] > >Pollack's stuff reminds me of Ornette Coleman jazz.
    > [...]
    > [] > I guess. I didnt get him either.
    > []
    > []
    > [] Nobody does. It's like guessing the letters in alphabet soup. You
    > [] just kinda let it wash over you.
    >
    > That sounds pretty kinky.


    I hope yer doing yer Harvey Korman when you say that.

    > Hopefully, you let it cool a bit first.



    There is no spoon.

    >
    > Chris
    >
    > --
    > "My current strat is actually a hollow tele."
    > -- Fabio
    > Remove X's from my email address above to reply
    > [These opinions are personal views only and only my personal views]



    --
    Les Cargill
  7. One thing I can't understand is how you are daisy chaining boss pedals with
    other pedals. They usually require a different type of power supply than
    the standard power supply.
    "Grant" <gpetty@aos.wisc.edu> wrote in message
    news:bgm4n0$dbq$1@news.doit.wisc.edu...
    >
    > I recently purchased a bunch of used effects on e-bay and installed them
    > on a home-built pedal board. The effects (in reverse order, because I
    > started typing before thinking) are:
    >
    > Amp
    > |
    > Boss RV-3 Reverb/Delay
    > Dod Ice Box Chorus
    > Boss GE-? EQ
    > Proco Turbo Rat
    > Fulltone FD2
    > Boss CS-3 compressor
    > Budda Wah
    > |
    > Guitar
    >
    > All of the effects are powered by a single daisychain power supply
    > (forgot the brand, but it's some fancy solid-state thing, and it's
    > supposed to be able to put out something like 1.5 amps of regulated 9V,
    > or more than enough for all of the above pedals).
    >
    > Now for the weirdness, which comes in several flavors:
    >
    > 1) I found that if I unplug the signal jack from the output of the
    > compressor (i.e., the cable that runs to the input of the FD2), then ALL
    > of the pedals shut down, as if they weren't getting power. Plugging the
    > cable back in restarts all the pedals. What the ....???
    >
    > 2) Somewhere in the chain (I haven't succeeded in isolating it yet),
    > there frequently arises a pulsing sound (freq. around 3-4 per second)
    > which sometimes resembles an ultrashort piece of sampled guitar sound
    > being replayed repeatedly at low volume, almost like from a boomerang.
    > It comes up at random times after I've been playing for a while and then
    > persists indefinitely, unless I power off all the pedals and then
    > restart them again. Fortunately, it's only audible when I'm not
    > playing. Switching pedals on and off with the foot switches makes no
    > difference. At first I thought the RV-3 was doing this (after all, it's
    > a delay), but I found that the pulsing sound gets louder when I engage
    > the FD2, suggesting it's originating early in the chain (but it's not
    > the wah, which I had for a long time before all the other pedals).
    > Again, unplugging the output jack from the CS-3 has the effect of
    > shutting off power to *all* pedals -- when I plug it back in, the
    > pulsing has usually gone away, for a short time at least. Could a
    > compressor that's malfunctioning theoretically produce a pulsing sampled
    > sound? I wouldn't have thought that there's any digital sampling going
    > on in a compressor, but I could be wrong...
    >
    > 3) Now for the worst part: At my last gig, I suddenly started losing
    > signal intermittently -- my guitar volume would fade drastically and
    > then return after anywhere from a few seconds to a minute or more.
    > There was no crackling or abrupt in/out syndrome like you'd expect from
    > a bad connection -- it was more of a deep sagging effect that came and
    > went for no apparent reason. Switching pedals off didn't make any
    > difference. Switched cables to no avail, so ended up going straight into
    > the amp, whereupon the problem went away, suggesting it was indeed
    > something in the pedal board. Unfortunately, it's so intermittent that
    > I haven't succeeded in systematically tracking it down, and I'm afraid
    > to use my pedal board in a gig again until I do.
    >
    > (On the bright side, I discovered that going straight into my new Gibson
    > Goldtone GA-15RV sounded pretty damned good for the most part, even on
    > songs that I thought absolutely required chorus, delay, etc.)
    >
    >
    > Comments, insights, etc., welcome.
    >
    > - Grant
    >
    >
  8. RC Moonpie

    RC Moonpie Guest

    On Thu, 14 Aug 2003 14:01:53 -0600, "ryanm"
    <ryanm@fatchicksinpartyhats.com> wrote:

    > She did a little research
    >and it turns out she's a millionaire. Bitch...



    you hate women
  9. ryanm

    ryanm Guest

    "RC Moonpie" <rcm@hotmail.com> wrote in message
    news:28hkjvopu3e63skf4c8dqgdsgar6uhcpjj@4ax.com...
    >
    > or, it could be very interesting. Jakkson Pollack vs Brian Eno. I
    > never could understand the attraction to Pollack, but an art professor
    > told me, well, he thought of it first, you didnt. I guess. Eno is sort
    > of groovy in a trippy way. The wife hates his stuff.
    >

    Everyone hear about the woman who bought a Pollack at a thrift store for
    $5 and it turned out to be worth $20m-$25m? She was on Leno the other night.
    She bought it as a joke because she thought it was ugly, gave it to a friend
    who didn't want it, and then leaned it against her trailer for several weeks
    while she decided what to do with it. She and her friend had contemplated
    throwing darts at it while drinking beer on the porch one evening. It sat in
    her storage space for 10 years until she finally tried to give it to a
    relative whose husband was an art major and thought it might be a Pollack,
    but wasn't sure since he never signed his stuff. She did a little research
    and it turns out she's a millionaire. Bitch...

    ryanm
  10. ryanm

    ryanm Guest

    "RC Moonpie" <rcm@hotmail.com> wrote in message
    news:28hkjvopu3e63skf4c8dqgdsgar6uhcpjj@4ax.com...
    >
    > or, it could be very interesting. Jackson Pollack vs Brian Eno. I
    > never could understand the attraction to Pollack, but an art professor
    > told me, well, he thought of it first, you didnt. I guess. Eno is sort
    > of groovy in a trippy way. The wife hates his stuff.
    >

    Everyone hear about the woman who bought a Pollack at a thrift store for
    $5 and it turned out to be worth $20m-$25m? She was on Leno the other night.
    She bought it as a joke because she thought it was ugly, gave it to a friend
    who didn't want it, and then leaned it against her trailer for several weeks
    while she decided what to do with it. She and her friend had contemplated
    throwing darts at it while drinking beer on the porch one evening. It sat in
    her storage space for 10 years until she finally tried to give it to a
    relative whose husband was an art major and thought it might be a Pollack,
    but wasn't sure since he never signed his stuff. She did a little research
    and it turns out she's a millionaire. Bitch...

    ryanm
  11. RC Moonpie

    RC Moonpie Guest

    On Thu, 14 Aug 2003 15:28:23 -0600, "ryanm"
    <ryanm@fatchicksinpartyhats.com> wrote:

    >"RC Moonpie" <rcm@hotmail.com> wrote in message
    >news:bspnjvo8m12l92qcjb457p630hblmqhd81@4ax.com...
    >> On Thu, 14 Aug 2003 14:01:53 -0600, "ryanm"
    >> <ryanm@fatchicksinpartyhats.com> wrote:
    >>
    >> > She did a little research
    >> >and it turns out she's a millionaire. Bitch...

    >>
    >> you hate women
    >>

    > No, I hate accidental millionaires, because I desperately want to be
    >one...
    >


    relax, it was a poor attempt at reverse-misogenystic humor
  12. ryanm

    ryanm Guest

    "RC Moonpie" <rcm@hotmail.com> wrote in message
    news:bspnjvo8m12l92qcjb457p630hblmqhd81@4ax.com...
    > On Thu, 14 Aug 2003 14:01:53 -0600, "ryanm"
    > <ryanm@fatchicksinpartyhats.com> wrote:
    >
    > > She did a little research
    > >and it turns out she's a millionaire. Bitch...

    >
    > you hate women
    >

    No, I hate accidental millionaires, because I desperately want to be
    one...

    ryanm
  13. Grant

    Grant Guest

    Adam Childers wrote:
    > One thing I can't understand is how you are daisy chaining boss pedals with
    > other pedals. They usually require a different type of power supply than
    > the standard power supply.


    Every one (except one) uses 9V DC with standard center-negative
    polarity. The 9V DC part would make sense, because they all accept 9V
    batteries.

    The only one that doesn't use center-negative is the Rat, and I have a
    little adaptor that fixes that part. If I weren't getting the polarity
    right on all of the pedals, I'm sure the affected ones wouldn't work at all.

    The only think that varies from pedal to pedal, to my knowledge, is the
    current draw. But since the power supply is wired in parallel, that
    doesn't matter as long as the total draw is less than the rated output
    of the supply.

    Or is there some power supply voodoo I'm overlooking?

    The power supply in question (which I could remember the make/model)
    advertises that it supplies enough current for up to 20 typical pedals.
    And it includes a wide range of connectors that are specifically
    designated for various non-standard pedals.

    - Grant
  14. Bill

    Bill Guest

    On Tue, 19 Aug 2003 13:12:52 -0500, Grant <gpetty@aos.wisc.edu> wrote:

    >Adam Childers wrote:
    >> One thing I can't understand is how you are daisy chaining boss pedals with
    >> other pedals. They usually require a different type of power supply than
    >> the standard power supply.

    >
    >Every one (except one) uses 9V DC with standard center-negative
    >polarity. The 9V DC part would make sense, because they all accept 9V
    >batteries.
    >
    >The only one that doesn't use center-negative is the Rat, and I have a
    >little adaptor that fixes that part. If I weren't getting the polarity
    >right on all of the pedals, I'm sure the affected ones wouldn't work at all.
    >
    >The only think that varies from pedal to pedal, to my knowledge, is the
    >current draw. But since the power supply is wired in parallel, that
    >doesn't matter as long as the total draw is less than the rated output
    >of the supply.
    >
    >Or is there some power supply voodoo I'm overlooking?


    One bit of voodoo I can think of is that some (rare) pedals ground the
    positive side of the 9v rather than the negative. I have an old big
    muff fuzz that works this way, and if you hooked it up to the same
    power supply as a negative ground pedal, the power supply would be
    looking at a dead short circuit, since the audio cable's shield
    connects the grounds of the two pedals. But I don't think this
    problem is likely to come up too often.
  15. Grant

    Grant Guest

    Bill wrote:
    > On Tue, 19 Aug 2003 13:12:52 -0500, Grant <gpetty@aos.wisc.edu> wrote:


    > looking at a dead short circuit, since the audio cable's shield
    > connects the grounds of the two pedals. But I don't think this
    > problem is likely to come up too often.
    >


    And if it did, I can't imagine I would have gotten my pedals to work at all.

    Still, a point I hadn't considered.

    Wish I could keep a voltmeter on the power supply and an o-scope on
    every point of the signal path while I'm playing. The problem I
    described in my first message has not been reproducible since the gig in
    which it appeared. I wonder if there was something flaky about the
    ground (or something) on the outlet we were using. But all the other
    equipment was working.
  16. Bill

    Bill Guest

    On Tue, 19 Aug 2003 15:45:23 -0500, Grant <gpetty@aos.wisc.edu> wrote:

    >Bill wrote:
    >> On Tue, 19 Aug 2003 13:12:52 -0500, Grant <gpetty@aos.wisc.edu> wrote:

    >
    >> looking at a dead short circuit, since the audio cable's shield
    >> connects the grounds of the two pedals. But I don't think this
    >> problem is likely to come up too often.

    >
    >And if it did, I can't imagine I would have gotten my pedals to work at all.


    Yes, everything would shut down when you connected the two grounds,
    either via the power supply cable or the audio cable.

    >Still, a point I hadn't considered.


    And probably not applicable, but might as well file it away for future
    reference.

    >Wish I could keep a voltmeter on the power supply and an o-scope on
    >every point of the signal path while I'm playing. The problem I
    >described in my first message has not been reproducible since the gig in
    >which it appeared. I wonder if there was something flaky about the
    >ground (or something) on the outlet we were using. But all the other
    >equipment was working.


    Have you determined whether or not a ground loop is present? That
    usually shows up as a 60Hz hum, but it can also bring up various other
    forms of interference.
  17. Guest

    Guest Guest

    I solved all of my effects problems in the only logical manner possible.I
    stopped using them.
    It took awhile,but I finally found the guitar,pickup,and amp combination
    that sounds so good to me,may I burn in Hell for eternity should I corrupt
    the sonic purity (IMO) that echos an angels chorus o' morn in
    spring........lest my fingers be knawed by the rodents of whom dwell in the
    blackest mare nighttime,shall I attempt adulterating the shrieking angst
    filled crescendos trumpeting the cries of an entire populace of Banshees
    amidst the peaking of their
    Se'Sounne Propaga 'Tes
    "Bill" <bwillis8@optonline.net> wrote in message
    news:1dl7kv8nked2biqs4dtof0to626nhrd545@4ax.com...
    > On Tue, 19 Aug 2003 15:45:23 -0500, Grant <gpetty@aos.wisc.edu> wrote:
    >
    > >Bill wrote:
    > >> On Tue, 19 Aug 2003 13:12:52 -0500, Grant <gpetty@aos.wisc.edu> wrote:

    > >
    > >> looking at a dead short circuit, since the audio cable's shield
    > >> connects the grounds of the two pedals. But I don't think this
    > >> problem is likely to come up too often.

    > >
    > >And if it did, I can't imagine I would have gotten my pedals to work at

    all.
    >
    > Yes, everything would shut down when you connected the two grounds,
    > either via the power supply cable or the audio cable.
    >
    > >Still, a point I hadn't considered.

    >
    > And probably not applicable, but might as well file it away for future
    > reference.
    >
    > >Wish I could keep a voltmeter on the power supply and an o-scope on
    > >every point of the signal path while I'm playing. The problem I
    > >described in my first message has not been reproducible since the gig in
    > >which it appeared. I wonder if there was something flaky about the
    > >ground (or something) on the outlet we were using. But all the other
    > >equipment was working.

    >
    > Have you determined whether or not a ground loop is present? That
    > usually shows up as a 60Hz hum, but it can also bring up various other
    > forms of interference.
    >
  18. > > 1) I found that if I unplug the signal jack from the output of the
    > > compressor (i.e., the cable that runs to the input of the FD2), then ALL
    > > of the pedals shut down, as if they weren't getting power. Plugging the
    > > cable back in restarts all the pedals. What the ....???


    Don't want to ask too many stupid questions BUT:
    1) I assume when you unplug the output of the compressor you plug the
    output of the WAH into the Fulltone right ?
    2) If answer to 1 is Yes - try also removing the power from the
    compressor as well (thus totally removing it from you're setup)
    3) If answer to 1 is NO - think about it ...



    > > 2) Somewhere in the chain (I haven't succeeded in isolating it yet),
    > > there frequently arises a pulsing sound (freq. around 3-4 per second)
    > > which sometimes resembles an ultrashort piece of sampled guitar sound
    > > being replayed repeatedly at low volume, almost like from a boomerang.
    > > It comes up at random times after I've been playing for a while and then
    > > persists indefinitely, unless I power off all the pedals and then
    > > restart them again. Fortunately, it's only audible when I'm not
    > > playing. Switching pedals on and off with the foot switches makes no
    > > difference. At first I thought the RV-3 was doing this (after all, it's
    > > a delay), but I found that the pulsing sound gets louder when I engage
    > > the FD2, suggesting it's originating early in the chain (but it's not
    > > the wah, which I had for a long time before all the other pedals).
    > > Again, unplugging the output jack from the CS-3 has the effect of
    > > shutting off power to *all* pedals -- when I plug it back in, the
    > > pulsing has usually gone away, for a short time at least. Could a
    > > compressor that's malfunctioning theoretically produce a pulsing sampled
    > > sound? I wouldn't have thought that there's any digital sampling going
    > > on in a compressor, but I could be wrong...


    Try using a little LESS compression . If problem still exists, I will
    think of somethin else ... It might not be a faulty compressor - just used
    incorrectly. High compression causes strange artifacts with low volume
    signals (you say it is only auduble when not playing ..)


    > > 3) Now for the worst part: At my last gig, I suddenly started losing
    > > signal intermittently -- my guitar volume would fade drastically and
    > > then return after anywhere from a few seconds to a minute or more.
    > > There was no crackling or abrupt in/out syndrome like you'd expect from
    > > a bad connection -- it was more of a deep sagging effect that came and
    > > went for no apparent reason. Switching pedals off didn't make any
    > > difference. Switched cables to no avail, so ended up going straight into
    > > the amp, whereupon the problem went away, suggesting it was indeed
    > > something in the pedal board. Unfortunately, it's so intermittent that
    > > I haven't succeeded in systematically tracking it down, and I'm afraid
    > > to use my pedal board in a gig again until I do.


    Might be the power supply not supplying enough juice .... 1.5 Amps is
    not THAT much (considering you are running 6 effects of it). Could also be
    any of a million others:)

    I would suggest adding another two or three efects during a practice session
    (thus power requirements are taxed). If the signal loss occurs MORE
    frequently, it's most probably power - if not - probably one of the effect
    pedals are failing ...
  19. Grant

    Grant Guest

    Tiaan Stander wrote:
    >>>1) I found that if I unplug the signal jack from the output of the
    >>>compressor (i.e., the cable that runs to the input of the FD2), then ALL
    >>>of the pedals shut down, as if they weren't getting power. Plugging the
    >>>cable back in restarts all the pedals. What the ....???

    >
    >
    > Don't want to ask too many stupid questions BUT:
    > 1) I assume when you unplug the output of the compressor you plug the
    > output of the WAH into the Fulltone right ?
    > 2) If answer to 1 is Yes - try also removing the power from the
    > compressor as well (thus totally removing it from you're setup)
    > 3) If answer to 1 is NO - think about it ...



    Answer to (1) is No. Answer to (3) is, "I've thought about it"

    The puzzle is not that there's no longer a guitar signal (that's
    obvious, even to me); rather it's that unplugging the output from the
    compressor causes the *power* to die on all the other pedals, even
    though they're all still connected (in parallel) to the power supply.

    Maybe there's an obvious reason why this should happen, but it's not
    obvious to me. Unless unplugging the jack from compressor for some
    perverse reason causes it to short its power supply to ground. But I
    guess that's a theory I could test with a VOM.

    - Grant

Share This Page