what are you using drum overheads these days?

Discussion in 'rec.audio.pro' started by Rich Wilner, Aug 21, 2003.

  1. jim andrews

    jim andrews Guest

    In article <1061485422.114103@nnrp2.phx1.gblx.net>, kurt@nv.net says...
    > jim andrews wrote:
    > >
    > > On the record I'm doing now, I used a pair of Royer 121 ribbon mics.
    > > The overall sound is a bit on the dark side, but everything is there,
    > > and it seems that they are highly "EQ-able". I can bring up the high
    > > end to get a bit more cymbal presence, and things don't get screechy at
    > > all.
    > >
    > > I borrowed one of the mics to do this -- I think I'm gonna have to buy
    > > one so as to always have a pair on hand. Me likey.

    >
    > You should listen to an SF-12 as well. I've heard some fantastic stuff
    > done with one up and out front of the kit.
    >
    > Try your R-121 on kick, about 3 feet out and pointed down 45º towards
    > the floor.


    Interesting thoughts. The SF-12 is the stereo mic, right? If my 121
    works on the kick, then maybe an SF-12 is a good idea for overheads.
    I'll try the 121 on kick first.

    jim andrews
    basset sound
    austin, tx
  2. JoavS

    JoavS Guest

    AKG 451B matched pair in ORTF, using the supplied bar, into MP2MH balanced
    out. Usually pads at -10dB unless it's a soft jazz.

    --
    Joav Shdema
    Producer/Engineer
    dB Studio A
    Joav Shdema Inc.



    "Rich Wilner" <richardwilner@hotmail.com> wrote in message
    news:e5e18e0f.0308201824.7a79869@posting.google.com...
    > just wondering what folks are using for drum overheads nowadays.
    > i have a pair of 451/ck1 that I use, and I stick an ECM8000 over the
    > drummers bass drum knee right in the middle of the kit as a mid oh,
    > which I compress and use to reinforce the center image.
  3. John Noll

    John Noll Guest

    Rich Wilner wrote:
    > just wondering what folks are using for drum overheads nowadays.
    > i have a pair of 451/ck1 that I use, and I stick an ECM8000 over the
    > drummers bass drum knee right in the middle of the kit as a mid oh,
    > which I compress and use to reinforce the center image.



    KM84's.

    --
    --
    John Noll
    Retromedia Sound Studios
    Red Bank, NJ 07701

    Phone: 732-842-3853 Fax: 732-842-5631

    http://www.retromedia.net
  4. Cerion

    Cerion Guest

    It's fun to hear when other people's experience seem to coincide with one's
    own, but also interesting to hear about new stuff you haven't tried too.
    From my limited experience ( 451s, Octavas, SM81s, 460Bs, 4033s, 4047s and
    even SM57s, nyuk nyuk) I ended up really liking the AT4047, mainly for the
    way it renders cymbals, pretty smooth sounding/not too bright. My latest
    favorite mic set up is the XY with capsules close to one another. I borrowed
    some KM84s once and they sounded good, but there are some cheaper mics now
    that are a better value I think (if money is an issue). When I had an analog
    set up, seems like overheads were less critical than with digital. I
    dunno... Anyway, each mic has it's own signature. Seems to me like
    overhead mic selections are based on subtleties in the mid-range that are
    either subjectively pleasing for a particular set up or not. Smooth is good,
    bumps in the response generally suck. I would guess that at very high
    frequencies, the physical geometry of the capsule, surrounding structure and
    wind screen are very critical and to eliminate the usual range of bumps one
    finds in mics might involve a much smaller diaphragm and less clutter around
    it. Probably an ideal mic wouldn't have a wind screen or any structure
    around the front at all, just a nice boundary on the same plane. ? I've
    heard some people really rave about Omnis with smaller capsules and much
    flatter response. I'm really interested in trying some of those... Anway,
    once you've tweaked on a particular set-up, you can add that to your
    vocabulary of recording and then pick the one you like. :p


    S
  5. Cerion

    Cerion Guest

    Hi,

    Kick always comes up too so I thought it would be fun to add my own
    experience, which seems to be different from most all the other posts.

    I've tried 421, SM57, PL20, RE20, 414, 4033, 4047, PZM, PCC, 451, 460B,
    SM81, M69, and a few others on kicks.
    I ended up really liking the way boundary mics work, e.g. PZM, PCC, or even
    Shure or AT cardiod boundary mics, like the kind used for conferencing, that
    people set on tables for recording, which I've seen posted before. But my
    second choice is usually a large diaphragm condenser, which I haven't seen
    many people mention or comment on in the news group. I almost never like
    the way dynamic mics sound as compared to the large diaphragm condenser, so
    that's always puzzled me when I hear people comparing kick mic experiences
    and they never talk about trying condensers. I've gotten some fun kick
    sounds with dynamic mics, but only with very heavy EQ. You can get heavily
    affected and/or EQd kick sounds -and- very natural un-affected sounds with a
    good large diaphragm condenser or boundary mic. :)

    Skler
  6. Bob Ross

    Bob Ross Guest

    Since the present tense of the question implies the most current project, I
    have to 'fess up that it's been a pair of AKG C451B's on my most recent
    recordings. But 451's of some variety or another have regularly turned out to
    be my favorite mic for drum overheads, so that shouldn't come as a surprise (to
    me at least).

    FWIW, other slightly less recent choices have included AKG C414ULS, Earthworks
    TC40k (especially into API 550B EQ), Neumann KM84, Neumann U-87ai, MXL 2001-P
    (gasp!), Sennheiser MD441, and, for live use, Shure SM81.

    If I go back any farther I'd just be bragging.

    /Bob Ross
  7. Dave Martin

    Dave Martin Guest

  8. RL,nyc

    RL,nyc Guest

    richardwilner@hotmail.com (Rich Wilner) wrote in message news:<e5e18e0f.0308201824.7a79869@posting.google.com>...
    > just wondering what folks are using for drum overheads nowadays.
    > i have a pair of 451/ck1 that I use, and I stick an ECM8000 over the
    > drummers bass drum knee right in the middle of the kit as a mid oh,
    > which I compress and use to reinforce the center image.


    I have been using 4 mics for the drums lately:

    A pair of studio projects C3 as overheads "Glynn Johns" style (one
    over the snare and one on the side of the floor tom facing the high
    hat. They are in omni, and they are running into a GR 2NV. Gives a
    teriffic stereo image. Been meaning to try out my 2 Beyer M160s
    (cartioid) but like the omni for the phasing issues and to get a
    little more room. I would really like a pair of Coles (figure 8), but
    keep spending my $$ on other stuff.

    Royer 121 (figure 8) as kick drum mic about a foot and a half in front
    of the bass drum (both heads on and covered with a blanket. This mic
    goes into an Amek CIB.

    Neumann TLM103 (cartioid) as room mic about 8-10 feet facing the front
    of the kit at shoulder level going into a Joe Meek VC1 and compressed
    a bunch.

    There is a lot of bleed, and lots of kick and snare in all mics (as
    well as sometimes too much cymbals - but it's "real", that's for
    sure). The room sounds good and is 20 X 15 X 14'. The kit is in a
    corner which is dead but diagonally faces windows for a live and hard
    first reflection.

    Best,
    RL, NYC
  9. RL,nyc wrote:
    >
    > Royer 121 (figure 8) as kick drum mic about a foot and a half in front
    > of the bass drum (both heads on and covered with a blanket. This mic
    > goes into an Amek CIB.
    > ...
    > There is a lot of bleed, and lots of kick and snare in all mics (as
    > well as sometimes too much cymbals


    If you point that R121 down toward the floor at around 45º, its null
    will be pointing at the snare/toms/hat.
  10. John L Rice

    John L Rice Guest

    "Rich Wilner" <richardwilner@hotmail.com> wrote in message
    news:e5e18e0f.0308201824.7a79869@posting.google.com...
    > just wondering what folks are using for drum overheads nowadays.
    > i have a pair of 451/ck1 that I use, and I stick an ECM8000 over the
    > drummers bass drum knee right in the middle of the kit as a mid oh,
    > which I compress and use to reinforce the center image.


    A pair of Neumann TLM193

    John L Rice
    Drummer@ImJohn.com
  11. "Wayne" <ybstudios@aol.com> wrote in message news:20030821184603.06546.00000316@mb-m28.aol.com...
    > Usually AT4050's or AT4041's. Sometimes three mics using AT4050 over snare,
    > TLM103 over the floor tom(right shoulder) and RE20 or ATM25 on kick.
    >
    > Wayne



    AT 4041s or AKG 451eb

    DM
  12. BLCKOUT420

    BLCKOUT420 Guest

    Octava 012s.
  13. Mark Plancke

    Mark Plancke Guest

    richardwilner@hotmail.com (Rich Wilner) wrote:

    >just wondering what folks are using for drum overheads nowadays.
    >i have a pair of 451/ck1 that I use, and I stick an ECM8000 over the
    >drummers bass drum knee right in the middle of the kit as a mid oh,
    >which I compress and use to reinforce the center image.


    I was using a pair of AKG C61 w/ck1 capsules through a Great River for
    a long time. The C61 is the Nuvistor tube version of the C60 and what
    became the 451, nice mic, very bright!

    I just recently went to a pair of KM84's through a pair of Telefunken
    V72's which is a very nice combination and takes EQ really well.

    Placement varies depending on the project and drummer.

    Mark
    http://SoundtechRecording.com

    "Putting the lion's share of your attention and investment out in front
    of the microphones pays off every time." -- Bob Olhsson
  14. RL,nyc

    RL,nyc Guest

    Kurt Albershardt <kurt@nv.net> wrote in message news:<1061529746.983614@nnrp1.phx1.gblx.net>...
    > RL,nyc wrote:
    > >
    > > Royer 121 (figure 8) as kick drum mic about a foot and a half in front
    > > of the bass drum (both heads on and covered with a blanket. This mic
    > > goes into an Amek CIB.
    > > ...
    > > There is a lot of bleed, and lots of kick and snare in all mics (as
    > > well as sometimes too much cymbals

    >
    > If you point that R121 down toward the floor at around 45º, its null
    > will be pointing at the snare/toms/hat.


    Thanks. Good advice. I already do that. I meant the bleed in the other
    three mics, which contribute towards the kick drum sound especially
    (in a good way)

    --RL, NYC
  15. Harvey Gerst

    Harvey Gerst Guest

    >"Rich Wilner" <richardwilner@hotmail.com> wrote:
    >just wondering what folks are using for drum overheads nowadays.


    A pair of R84 ribbon mics, from AEA.

    Harvey Gerst
    Indian Trail Recording Studio
    http://www.ITRstudio.com/
  16. Rich Wilner

    Rich Wilner Guest

    > I have been using 4 mics for the drums lately:
    >
    > A pair of studio projects C3 as overheads "Glynn Johns" style (one
    > over the snare and one on the side of the floor tom facing the high
    > hat. They are in omni, and they are running into a GR 2NV. Gives a
    > teriffic stereo image. Been meaning to try out my 2 Beyer M160s
    > (cartioid) but like the omni for the phasing issues and to get a
    > little more room. I would really like a pair of Coles (figure 8), but
    > keep spending my $$ on other stuff.


    hm...
    no phase issues with such closely spaced omnis? do you use a baffle/jecklin disc?
  17. lately i've been switching between KM184's, TLM 103's and Schoeps
    221b's. we did have the luxery of a pair of M49s recently, but that
    was just a rental.


    ben

    richardwilner@hotmail.com (Rich Wilner) wrote in message news:<e5e18e0f.0308201824.7a79869@posting.google.com>...
    > just wondering what folks are using for drum overheads nowadays.
  18. Kris Singh

    Kris Singh Guest

    I like KM184s for drum overheads. Or a C24 if available.-Kris



    richardwilner@hotmail.com (Rich Wilner) wrote in message news:<e5e18e0f.0308201824.7a79869@posting.google.com>...
    > just wondering what folks are using for drum overheads nowadays.
    > i have a pair of 451/ck1 that I use, and I stick an ECM8000 over the
    > drummers bass drum knee right in the middle of the kit as a mid oh,
    > which I compress and use to reinforce the center image.
  19. Fibes

    Fibes Guest

    On 21 Aug 2003 23:00:03 GMT, garthrr@aol.com (Garthrr) wrote:


    >The KSM 32 is a 3/4" diaphram if I remember correctly so they might have better
    >off axis response than large dia and I would bet they would sound smoother than
    >most of the Chinese LD mics. Thats my guess anyway.
    >Garth~



    I've HAD to use them (KSM 32s) on occasion and found them to be very
    neutral. It was a pleasant surprise but then again my expectations may
    have colored it a bit.
    Fibes

    "You can like it, or not like it."
  20. RL,nyc

    RL,nyc Guest

    richardwilner@hotmail.com (Rich Wilner) wrote in message news:<e5e18e0f.0308220657.3a73eac6@posting.google.com>...
    > > I have been using 4 mics for the drums lately:
    > >
    > > A pair of studio projects C3 as overheads "Glynn Johns" style (one
    > > over the snare and one on the side of the floor tom facing the high
    > > hat. They are in omni, and they are running into a GR 2NV. Gives a
    > > teriffic stereo image. Been meaning to try out my 2 Beyer M160s
    > > (cartioid) but like the omni for the phasing issues and to get a
    > > little more room. I would really like a pair of Coles (figure 8), but
    > > keep spending my $$ on other stuff.

    >
    > hm...
    > no phase issues with such closely spaced omnis? do you use a baffle/jecklin disc?


    omni has less phasing issues that directional patterns, or so i have
    been taught. why would there be problems based on closeness in omni?
    i am only using my ears, but neither i nor anyone who has heard the
    results have had anything but good comments. no baffles, and i
    wouldn't know a "jecklin disc" if it hit me on the head. I am not a
    "schooled" engineer, although i have been in enough studios on enough
    projects with great engineers to have learned how to fool the
    scientists. there are some phasing issues with the room mic which is
    in cartioid, but i have a little labs ibp to deal with that.

    best,
    RL, NYC

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